HHT hole size
- Thread starter MeatBuck
- Start date
hand skills
Hammer Time Executive member
I wonder if there is some kind of chamfer on there. I look forward to sectioning a couple to see for myself!
hand skills
Hammer Time Executive member
Knowledge is priceless, Grasshopper!
(...but ya, with the CDN exchange rate it might sting a little
)
(...but ya, with the CDN exchange rate it might sting a little
)
BFD
Hammer Time Executive member
I don't think they are all the same across the board. I can tell you about 132HHT 7mm and 154HHT 308 here soon.
hand skills
Hammer Time Executive member
What makes you say that?
So far the 'tip length' on all HHT's released is .143". Suggests to me they might all be the same.
My order shipped today. We are only 100mi north of the MT border, but in a different country, so not holding my breath... Looking forward to their arrival though!
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joe16
Hammer Time Executive member
I believe all the tips to be the same length at least the 30 calibers were (154 163) the only difference that I might see and I have no idea just speaking out loud is that the diameter of the hollow point be different on smaller pills so tips would be possibly caliber specific
BFD
Hammer Time Executive member
All my conversations with Fordy explaining to me the testing and hollow point depths between the bullet weights, calibers.
hand skills
Hammer Time Executive member
For sure the depth of the hollow point is bullet specific... But the diameter? I guess we'll see 
So far so the HHT's all use the same tip. Bullets and tips are an exact marriage. Depth of hollow point is relative to bullet form. No formula here. Years of messing with HP depth relative to terminal performance and the extensive testing that @Farleg did with the HHT and varying hp depths to find the optimum window for terminal performance.
The first ones had a 4 diff drill process. Now refined with the use of custom designed drills/mills.
The first ones had a 4 diff drill process. Now refined with the use of custom designed drills/mills.
DiscoSteve
Hammer Time Executive member
Good to know "so far" the tips are the same across bullet calibers. I guess keeping the tip constant alleviates the hassle of matching specific tips to certain bullets (esp when they're not coming tipped form the factory). And I assume that since the tips are the same, that would imply the "contour" of each HHT bullet is the same at the tip/bullet junction.
I haven't gotten my hands on any of the HHTs yet, but I assume the bullet HP grips the stem of the tip to hold it in place? That would imply that all the HHTs have the same diameter HP? Is that correct?
According to @Steve Davis above, the HP depth varies by bullet, and is chosen for terminal ballistic performance.
@T_the_Tinkerer referenced "tip ejection" - which I guess is the point at which the stem of the tip bottoms out in the HP and therefore doesn't contribute anymore to expansion of the bullet? I'd never thought about it before, but I would imagine that the geometry of the underside of the nose of the tip (and how it interfaces with the chamfer at the tip of the bullet HP) would play a pretty big role in initiating expansion and petal creation.
Does the tip allow the bullet to transform from its ballistic form to its terminal form faster than an un-tipped bullet, potentially creating an earlier bubble?
I haven't gotten my hands on any of the HHTs yet, but I assume the bullet HP grips the stem of the tip to hold it in place? That would imply that all the HHTs have the same diameter HP? Is that correct?
According to @Steve Davis above, the HP depth varies by bullet, and is chosen for terminal ballistic performance.
@T_the_Tinkerer referenced "tip ejection" - which I guess is the point at which the stem of the tip bottoms out in the HP and therefore doesn't contribute anymore to expansion of the bullet? I'd never thought about it before, but I would imagine that the geometry of the underside of the nose of the tip (and how it interfaces with the chamfer at the tip of the bullet HP) would play a pretty big role in initiating expansion and petal creation.
Does the tip allow the bullet to transform from its ballistic form to its terminal form faster than an un-tipped bullet, potentially creating an earlier bubble?
BFD
Hammer Time Executive member
Just running this through my mind, in imaginative slow motion...upon impact, I see the tip driving into the bullet hollow point channel to a point the petals grab hold of the tissue and handle the rest of the expansion/petal shed process. I don't see the base of the tip contacting the bottom of the hollow point channel. I would imagine before that happens there is all kinds of straight-back-path disruption happening.
That is a great question. I would say yes, but that is only parroting the marketing/mfgr claims I've read about ballistic tips the past 20yrs.
DiscoSteve
Hammer Time Executive member
In my mind, the way the un tipped hollow point bullets work is that when they impact something soft/fluid, they penetrate until the hydraulic pressure builds inside the HP until the shear strength of the bullet material is exceeded, causing the petals to shed. Pressure needs some miniscule amount of time to build throughout the length of the HP, so I don't believe this happens immediately upon impact of the meplat with fur. In contrast, I can imagine the plastic tip acting like a wedge to initiate expansion immediately when the tip contacts fur and is driven backward relative to the bullet shank. I have no idea if once expansion starts the tissue can grab the tips of the recently formed petals and continue petal formation/shearing to completion, or if the tip continues to be the main contributor to upsetting the bullet.
I could be completely wrong about my above assumptions, I love hearing others' thoughts on how the transition from ballistic to terminal form occurs.
This is very interesting to think about as a thought experiment, I learn something here every day!
I could be completely wrong about my above assumptions, I love hearing others' thoughts on how the transition from ballistic to terminal form occurs.
This is very interesting to think about as a thought experiment, I learn something here every day!
Much of this stuff is speculation. Between the design of the tip and the design of the hollow point we were able to avoid the typical tip bullet deflection on angled impacts. This is what had @Farleg so wound up about not being able to kill this bullet. He also tested with and without the tip and found they perform better with the tip installed.
T_the_Tinkerer
Hammer Time Executive member
"Tip ejection" is actually just as it sounds: the tip has to eject from the bullet! Unlike the VMAX that has a hollow space for a harder tip stem to ram into softer lead core which splits the core inside out. A copper monolithic is different and, unless you're using a harder tip (brass, steel) and a shelved/stepped internal design like Peregrine does, cannot be "opened up" via the tip.
With a copper bullet like the hammer, TTSX/LRX, or badlands, the tip is bent out of the cavity upon impact due to the fact that no bullet will continuously encounter exactly perpendicular forces against its meplat at and after the point of impact. What you'll see with an aluminum tip is that the stem of the tip will be bent while the pointy end is generally intact.
As far as tips allowing for faster terminal transition, theoretically they shouldn't because they're blocking the way. Realistically, they can and should be intentionally designed via modification of the tip length, stem length and fit, to facilitate terminal effects at the depth necessary for performance against the game you intend for your bullet to be used. Also, the tip allows the most aerodynamic meplat to be used in front of a larger hollow point cavity, so faster terminal performance is easily achieved without hindering external ballistics.
TL;DR
Ballistic tips are one of the most important ballistic innovations in the modern era! Nearly as much care needs to be put into designing their dimensions as is placed in designing the bullet that they're plugged into.
T_the_Tinkerer
Hammer Time Executive member
@Farleg 's findings make sense. I had speculated that the sharp meplat would allow the bullet to enter straighter at more oblique angles. The tip delays the expansion of an otherwise more explosive bullet/hp design just enough so that it can detonate in the vitals and waste no energy fragging into muscle tissue before it hits organs.
Another reason tips are one of the biggest innovations in terminal ballistics in the modern era. They act like a time fuse. I demonstrated with Badlands 55gr bulldozer 2 that you could "program" the bullet to expand at different penetration depths based on the tip's stem length.
I "think" HP size is where many tips don't deliver.
Not sure about new as the Remington Bronze Point has been around awhile. My recollection is of it having a comparatively large HP, and experientially it was a very "fragile" bullet.
MeatBuck
Hammer Time Executive member
T_the_Tinkerer
Hammer Time Executive member
Well, they're large compared to the hollow points that Berger and others use on their hunting bullets...
As for the bronze point, that bullet demonstrates the superiority of the innovation of polymer tips. I should've been more specific. My bad.
