A.I. Chatbot Copper Monolithic Bullets

OutdoorEdventure

OutdoorEdventure

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Waiting in a meeting decided to chat with A.I. about Copper Mono. -vs- CC bullets.

Me - compare a standard cup and core lead bullet versus a solid copper monolithic bullet. what weight difference between the two types of bullets to match velocity and energy?

A.I. - “A standard cup and core lead bullet is made by mechanically combining a soft lead core with a harder copper jacket1. On the other hand, a solid copper monolithic bullet is usually made from a single, solid piece of copper or copper alloy with no lead core1. The real difference between the two types of bullets comes into play when considering the specific density, or weight, of each element. A one-cubic-centimeter block of lead weighs 176 grains, whereas exactly the same-sized block of copper weighs only 139 grains, meaning that copper is 26.6-percent lighter than lead, given the same dimensions2. Due to the lower density of copper, monolithic bullets have slightly more volume than lead-core bullets for the same weight. For the same weight they are a little longer than lead-core bullets3. If you insist on shooting the same weight, you should check that the rifle twist is correctly matched to the monolithic bullet3. Is there anything else you would like to know?”

Me - yes. with a solid copper bullet being 26.6% lighter than lead. what weight does a copper monolithic match that of a 150gr cup and core lead bullet?

A.I. - “A solid copper monolithic bullet is 26.6% lighter than a lead bullet of the same dimensions. To match the weight of a 150gr cup and core lead bullet, a solid copper monolithic bullet would need to weigh approximately 150gr * (1 - 0.266) = 110.1gr. Is there anything else you would like to know?”

I couldn’t believe this so I had to look it up.
30.06 150gr Rem Core Lokt
IMG_8513.png

Hammer doesn’t have 110 but here’s the 120LH. I made up the 3700FPS velocity. Found a 135PH running 3475FPS.
IMG_8515.png

Numbers were slightly off but dang!!!

Finally, Me - is copper monolithic or lead bullet more prone to tumbling through medium

A.I. “According to my sources, solid copper bullets are less prone to fragmentation and retain more of their original weight than lead bullets1. Copper bullets retain 95 to 100-percent of their original weight, often penetrating deeper than a lead bullet, which sheds up to 40 percent of its weight through fragmentation1. Copper bullets are good penetrators and their expansion is more symmetrical, allowing for a straighter drive into the tissue2. This suggests that copper monolithic bullets are less prone to tumbling through a medium than lead bullets. Is there anything else you would like to know?”
 
I’ve started using an AI program to generate rough drafts of communications and policies. I then go back and “polish” it up to be more my writing style. The more I use it and the more it learns, the less and less I’m polishing up what it produces.

It’s pretty darn cool, but pretty darn scary as well.
 
We have started using it at my Guard unit to help write performance reports. As a rater, I read a bunch, to say the least. Perhaps it depends on which service one is using (we’re cheap and use a free one), but I do A LOT of the “polishing” that Rich mentioned. It spits out a lot of banal fluff.

For what it’s worth, recently I read that OpenAI is spending $700,000 a day to keep ChatGPT going. Crazy!
 
On a more practical note: My favorite bullet for the 308 has been the 165 gr cup and core. Using the AI data that translates into a 121.11 grain copper mono bullet. H'mmmm real intelligence and some practical thinking had me settle on the 124 grain HH for the 308. The 180 grain translates to 132.1. That leans me toward the 137 HH for my AI 06. I used to shoot the 210 gr cup and core in 300 RUM. Using the AI information it looks like 154.1 is the translation into copper.

This begs the question: Are these really that radical? I shot 8 nice blacktails with the 140 grain Barnes Bullet with my 308. The furthest one ran 30 yards. If I was chewing the fat down at the local gun store and told the guys I shot a deer at 150 yards with my 308 with a 180 grain bullet, most of them would have said, I didn't need that heavy of a bullet. I did chew the fat in the store and they all said the 140 grain Barnes was too light!

Like we have said many times over - these bullets require a change in thinking. Nobody in the circles I've hunted in would think twice about hunting with 180 grain cup and core in the 300RUM. Many of my hunting friends think I am nuts hunting with the 137 grain Hammer in my RUM. Furthermore, Hammer has solved the friction problem. It seems to me that a radical departure from the norm would be to hunt with the 103 grain Power Hammer on the light end and anything over 160 grains on the heavy end in 30 caliber.

I'm feeling better about my choices for deer hunting this year. The 137 in the RUM and the 124 in the 308. Looking at it through this lens, I am being pretty pedestrian.
 
One of the biggest problems with AI in this context is veracity.

Some self learning (AI) models have done really well, and are correct more than 90% of the time. We would hope that as they 'learn' their ability to be 'right' would improve. In many cases, it doesn't.

Models often start out well, but start fabricating falsities in no time.

This even happened with Chat GPT - it became less capable of providing accurate answers over time, following the iteration of different versions has been fascinating (for nerds like me)


OutdoorEdventure said:
A.I. - “A solid copper monolithic bullet is 26.6% lighter than a lead bullet of the same dimensions. To match the weight of a 150gr cup and core lead bullet, a solid copper monolithic bullet would need to weigh approximately 150gr * (1 - 0.266) = 110.1gr. Is there anything else you would like to know?”
Click to expand...



Here is an interesting example.

I'm sure most will roll their eyes at this, but I guess I am a bit of a stickler for details.

Lead is 26.8% more dense than copper, using copper as the baseline for comparison.

But if one uses Lead as the baseline, copper is actually 21.1% lighter than lead.

Ed's chat bot seemingly doesn't understand these 'semantics', and while the implications in this context are quite trivial, what I am trying to illustrate here is that we cannot 'trust' answers just because they come from a computer. Many of us are used to computers following logic and doing exactly what we tell them (haha... Well when they are working like they should 🤣🤦‍♂️😉)

So compared to a 150gr lead bullet;

150gr x .789 = 118gr

Compared to a 118gr Copper bullet;

118gr x 1.268 = 150gr

In conclusion, AI scares me a bit, but regular people giving over their sensemaking scares me a lot more!!!
 
My interest in chat boxing was really tumble issue.

Target shooting long range pitch under and yaw right was the mantra. So what happens when a CC bullet is already pitching under and wanting to use right when it hits a game animal?

My one experience shooting CC at a hog 635 yards. Slightly quarter toward. Mid shoulder shot. Bullet was recovered in intestines.

Would the same hold true with a lighter faster Hammer Bullet?
 
hand skills said:
One of the biggest problems with AI in this context is veracity.

Some self learning (AI) models have done really well, and are correct more than 90% of the time. We would hope that as they 'learn' their ability to be 'right' would improve. In many cases, it doesn't.

Models often start out well, but start fabricating falsities in no time.

This even happened with Chat GPT - it became less capable of providing accurate answers over time, following the iteration of different versions has been fascinating (for nerds like me)






Here is an interesting example.

I'm sure most will roll their eyes at this, but I guess I am a bit of a stickler for details.

Lead is 26.8% more dense than copper, using copper as the baseline for comparison.

But if one uses Lead as the baseline, copper is actually 21.1% lighter than lead.

Ed's chat bot seemingly doesn't understand these 'semantics', and while the implications in this context are quite trivial, what I am trying to illustrate here is that we cannot 'trust' answers just because they come from a computer. Many of us are used to computers following logic and doing exactly what we tell them (haha... Well when they are working like they should 🤣🤦‍♂️😉)

So compared to a 150gr lead bullet;

150gr x .789 = 118gr

Compared to a 118gr Copper bullet;

118gr x 1.268 = 150gr

In conclusion, AI scares me a bit, but regular people giving over their sensemaking scares me a lot more!!!
Click to expand...
I'll have to agree with you there, The Movie Terminator isn't that far fetched anymore
 
ButterBean said:
I'll have to agree with you there, The Movie Terminator isn't that far fetched anymore
Click to expand...
Hah, you’ve got that right. I used to work for an aerospace company and we were developing a pod that would allow one aircraft to control multiple small UAVS. In one meeting, a young project manager proposed the name SkyNet for the pod. There was dead silence in the room and the stares could’ve melted steel. The next voice was the President of the company…If you’re even remotely serious, you’re welcome to go pack your desk up and go home. Never saw the poor guy again.
 
Richcotte said:
Hah, you’ve got that right. I used to work for an aerospace company and we were developing a pod that would allow one aircraft to control multiple small UAVS. In one meeting, a young project manager proposed the name SkyNet for the pod. There was dead silence in the room and the stares could’ve melted steel. The next voice was the President of the company…If you’re even remotely serious, you’re welcome to go pack your desk up and go home. Never saw the poor guy again.
Click to expand...
That's scary
 
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