Primers & Primer Pockets: A Primer on Primers

BFD

BFD

Hammer Time Executive member
I got intimately familiar with primer pocket size when reloading NATO 5.56 brass that has a primer pocket crimp. Trying to reload brass that has that crimp in place either won't happen, or the primer gets deformed in the pocket. It's a real crap show. So, to reload this type of brass, one needs to swage the primer pocket, or enlarge the pocket to fit a new primer. The swage process smashes the primer pocket crimp/collar to the sides of the primer pocket. RCBS has a swage die that does this, also Frankfurt Arsenal with a stand alone swage mini press. @CBH Australia - you could try this for the small pocket S&B brass.

I told you that story to segue into this:

Winchester WLR primers are .2095 dia.
Fed and CCI at .2105 dia.
Ginex even larger via CBH Australia's post. .213 dia (Geez)

So if you have small primer pockets, it's an easy fix with a swage die/press. Tedious, boring, adds time to the loading process, but it's easy. Most don't have this problem, rather, the primer pockets get larger, or start out larger. So, how do we deal with the larger primer pockets?

1. Use a larger dia primer to start. If using WLR, switch to pretty much any other primer that are larger.
2. LGBTQJOE the primer pocket with nail polish
3. Ball bearing, hardened bolt smack the primer pocket to cave it in to adhoc crimp the primer pocket inward. I now only suggest this for healthy brass, if one has grown the pocket by pressure, there could also be web fissures, and/or case head separation. Throw it away! I am reversing my previous recommendation to limp along over pressured brass with this method. Early this year I was unlucky enough to get a piece of brass with case web fissures and nearly blew my face off. Another story.

I've found new primer pockets at .2075-.208 (Lapua) take a .2105 primer tight, but smooth with no primer damage. It's been a known fact in the competition scene to load WLR primers in Lapua brass to start, then switch to CCI/Fed after some firings to keep a tight seal when the primer pocket gets looser. NOT LOOSE.

So, now well all know primers are not the same size, primer pockets are not the same size, so yet another area of consideration in hand loading.
 
Thankyou @BFD . BFD has started this thread as my comments started to derail another and this will be easier to search when we need to go back to it.

Sorry for the confusion. I don't have Ginex primers that was a screenshot from another source confirming my suspicions about some slight differences in specifications causing me grief with Seller and Bellott brass.

It seems Seller and Bellott brass primer pockets are a tad smaller than most brands.

My first attempt to rectify was to use a handheld crimp removal too chamfer it. Didn't help much.

Seating Remington primers into the S&B brass with a Lee Hand primer was putting a lot of pressure on the tool and causing primer damage if it sort tried to go.

Changing to Winchester primers didn't help. It seems that Seller and Bellott primers are marginally smaller. They are in fact listed as 5.3mm. Perhaps it's an effect of rounding due to a metric unit of measure as opposed to American primers being made to an Imperial unit of measure.

Anyway, I'm hoping to source S&B primers to resolve it.

It's just S&B brass was all we could source for my brother's 6.5x55 at the time.

Primers have been difficult to find at present so there's generally no choice of brands as retailers are stocking what they can get if they have any at all.Screenshot_20231029_210025.jpg
 
I have used a fair bit of S&B brass, mainly for rimmed European cartridges that have limited brass options ( 8x57JRS, 9.3x74R)
But have always loaded it with S&B primers as I was told by my gun smith that you had to use their primers with their brass.. I guess this is why..

Haven’t seen s&b primers in stock for several years now. @CBH Australia I will certainly let you know if I see some!
 
TJA500 said:
I have used a fair bit of S&B brass, mainly for rimmed European cartridges that have limited brass options ( 8x57JRS, 9.3x74R)
But have always loaded it with S&B primers as I was told by my gun smith that you had to use their primers with their brass.. I guess this is why..

Haven’t seen s&b primers in stock for several years now. @CBH Australia I will certainly let you know if I see some!
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Thankyou, it's good to get confirmation that others are aware of this and it's recognised and not just a one off problem
 
@CBH Australia - I got some Ginex small rifle primers enroute for AR15 use. 5000 primers for $277 and I've watched the prices creep up from $150 a couple years ago. Saw enough reviews on them to pull the trigger. I am excited to measure these and see if they are larger like the rest in their line of primers. I've read a ton of reports that the pistol primers are huge and have caused a lot of seating issues with a lot of folks.

Well, either way, they gotta work. I got 5000 of them! LOL
 
BFD said:
@CBH Australia - I got some Ginex small rifle primers enroute for AR15 use. 5000 primers for $277 and I've watched the prices creep up from $150 a couple years ago. Saw enough reviews on them to pull the trigger. I am excited to measure these and see if they are larger like the rest in their line of primers. I've read a ton of reports that the pistol primers are huge and have caused a lot of seating issues with a lot of folks.

Well, either way, they gotta work. I got 5000 of them! LOL
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I hope they work for you. The cost doesn't seem to bad even considering the exchange rate.

I think the average price in Australia is around $200 per 1000 so that's maybe $1000 per 5000 with maybe a small discount if they have sufficient stock to offer lots of 5000.

I have a slab of 1000 with an old price of $55, I m sure it was only 10 years ago we would have sourced them at $30 per thousand.

What am I worried about we can't have AR15's so quantity is not the issue. I have sufficient for now.

I will be chasing some Sellier & Bellot as TJA500 has pointed out there is something to this and using A&B primers in there cases should rectify it
 
Currently around here you are looking at $300-400/1000 for primers of any sort and the only shop I know of that still has any large rifle within about 5hrs drive of me is only selling one packet (100) per person (Remingtons)

I think the sticker on my 1000 box of S&B says $40…. 😭

I have enough to get by for now, but it makes it very tough for new punters just starting out

I would be building a RUM right now if I could get 215s… had to settle for a smaller case 🙁🤣

Is Anything available out your way @CBH Australia ?

Anyway that’s probably enough wingeing!!
 
Gday
Nice thread
we got a really bad ignition rate from the s&b 50% failure & sent them back to shop & exchanged for federal but was some time back

On Bertrum brass I use Remington & Winchester first fire then go to cci & federal

last lot of primers I got were in the NT for $ 19per 100 & Remington standard & magnum for which I could only get 500 of ea & my mate the same
Tassie they’ve dried up 🥲

Hey TJA
I heard rum hmmm
You get the rifle I’ll get 215 to you 👍 great excuse for a road trip 😜
Cheers
 
My mate had a lot of trouble with S&B primers in his 7x57, constant failures. he ended up replacing the s&b brass with Norma after missing out on a number of critters and gave me the rest of his primers, I loaded some s&b primed cases up for his rifle and couldn’t get them to fail and have used the primers from the same box of 1000 as well as my own box of 1000 for years without having ever had a single failure 🤷‍♂️ I don’t know if it was a problem with how he was priming the cases but he has never had the same trouble with the federal or CCI primers we normally use..

What an offer!! What a top bloke 👍👍
Cheers @Farleg
sadly I think I have gone too far down a different road now 😭

But one day 🥳
 
TJA500 said:
My mate had a lot of trouble with S&B primers in his 7x57, constant failures. he ended up replacing the s&b brass with Norma after missing out on a number of critters and gave me the rest of his primers, I loaded some s&b primed cases up for his rifle and couldn’t get them to fail and have used the primers from the same box of 1000 as well as my own box of 1000 for years without having ever had a single failure 🤷‍♂️ I don’t know if it was a problem with how he was priming the cases but he has never had the same trouble with the federal or CCI primers we normally use..
Click to expand...
Gday TJA
I think he may have been seating them to deep as that’s what the main issue I’ve seen when one has had issues with various brands
Cheers
 
Farleg said:
Gday TJA
I think he may have been seating them to deep as that’s what the main issue I’ve seen when one has had issues with various brands
Cheers
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Yeah that is what I believe to have been the issue. Interesting that he hasn’t had the same issue with other brands, I wonder if some are more susceptible or if he just learnt his lesson 🤷‍♂️
 
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