Fordy’s Findings

Gday


I get a heap of requests on this pill vrs that & im struggling to find time to reply to everyone I’ve got a huge back log no excuse so accept my apology in advance

So let’s get into this with the start

I started with the 174hh as my first hammer kills some 5 years ago

So I’m starting with this pill
30 cal 174hh

First impressions prior to use ( I got coned into testing hammers from another taswegian although I’d hung my knife & tape measure up a few years prior)
( leatherman @DaveM yes I’ve had a few but favourite was victornox lol )

Hammers were Just another shedding mono & tested multiple brands of these

Preformance oh my that shouldn’t have done that hmm was that a fluke or norm
A bit of both as the numbers increased the pattern showed hmmm these are good

Tested from 2500 to 3400 impacts
the pill itself has gave pretty good results on critters upto inc buff taken with it

On the big brutes it showed good results but not as consistent as the 151ah & the shank @ the end of penertration was tumbling but we have to remember this is asiatic buff &30 cal
On donkeys same old darn things are hard to kill so nothing standout here vrs a couple of other 30 cal hammers used

On light resistance between ribs once velocity gets down to the 2600 ish it was getting delayed on the first lobe but still killed well

The 174 still holds a special place in my heart as it gave me my first memorable hammer kill but it’s been superseded by a fair few pills today but it’s also one that my mate has just gone back to in his rum as he’s after some longer ranges so the low to mid impacts I’ll come back to as it comes around

That’s a very poor start on my findings sorry but I’ve been up for nearly 22 hrs & I need sleep

I’ll get a list of pills together I’ve tested & give some better information & some won’t have a lot of data also
Cheers

You don't sleep!

At risk of @BFD recommending knee pads again… but I love the idea of this thread! Work your way through them Fordy! I’ll be reading!

Farleg said:

I started with the 174hh as my first hammer kills some 5 years ago

Click to expand...

Hmmm 5 years worth of terminal data. This is going to be a long one. But a great one. When you finish this you might as well type up the other brands of the pills you’ve tested. Rusty will rewrite it and put it into a book. Sales and marketing will be up to you.

I Love This Place

Gday
Just a quick one while the billy boils & time to head out
Just ticked on this a bit more
I’ll start putting my list of pills together & then is there any order people want to see or open to recommendations

On the last ones I’ve worked out that this forum accepts videos which imo is way better than pictures but you’ll have put up with my bad English & odd stutters but I’ll add these where I can to show more detail

I’ve also got some on my video camera but that’s a nightmare for me to work out & we have a bit of drone photography to put up & hopefully more to come once cows are dry in a month

So yes I’ve got a huge amount to go through so please bare with me this is going to take time like the AHT thread but it imo gives a great example of the pill itself so I will try & concentrate on this as much as possible so I won’t comment on many other threads sorry but just to much to do & not enough time

Time to go splat a few critters catch you lot on next round
Cheers

@ Kneedeep and others (especially newcomers),
Don't forget all the bullet test data already posted under Bullets & Ballistics. I got the dubious pleasure of deciphering all of Fordy's scribblings. There's data on many cup &cores as well as prototype and finished Hammers. There's pages and pages!

Farleg if you are hard up for time to post it all then chances are I will have a hard time reading it all I wonder if a cliff notes version would be better for everyone? It would also be less intimidating for customers who don’t frequent the forum to get through?? Just thinking out loud.

Gday
Carsyn22 that is a great idea on cliff notes I’ll try to keep them brief & I was looking through a bit of stuff on my phone & meplats come up on some of my testing so I’ll include that even you can’t buy these as riceman cut them down for me out of the 144target hammer this was my attempt initially to find a really good pill for use on the African tiny ten or like
Was extremely fascinating & one that maybe of intest to some so I’ll include that plus a few others that never saw market as they didn’t meet standards but learning definitely occurred

So here’s my list & I think this is all
224 cal
33 SH,35hh,44hh,51AH , 52HH 64HH ( I’ll probably have the 57hht done as I have them & really want to do as I chatted with Brian on results as they come in prior to release

243 cal
55hh ,70hh 75hht ( doing now or loaded anyway ) 90hht

257cal
75hh 90ah 92hh

277cal
90 hh loaded for a new guy that’s never shot a deer so tests will probably be done by time I get through this 117hh

284 cal
90hh 101hh 119ah 120hh 130AH 131hh143hh 155AH

308 cal
100 sh 101bo 103ph 120 LH 124hh 130 sh 137hh 138hht 150ph 151ah 152hh 152sh 154hht 160 hh 163hht 166hh 168 hht 174hh 180hh 181hh 182 hht 214hh

338
175hh 186sh 202 hht 205ph 210hht 213hh 223 hh 225 sh 235hh245hh 260hh 267hht

375 onwards to come
got to run running late will update later cheers

375 cal
121 SH , 137SH 151 SH 200sh 220sh 248 hh 256 sh 270 sh 278 sh 277/8 hht 279 DB
281 hh 299sh 329 hh plus various weight & nose profile of true solids

458 cal
300 sh & 404sh

510 cal
Various & brain dead @ present sorry so this list will come when I go through my notes

Yes this list above is from my memory it used to be real good but today I can’t real this pill out of my head like I once could

So I may have missed some above in various calibres so I’ll add them as I go some i need to be brief or I’ll sidestep if questions come on anything that is hammers proprietary information so please don’t take offence as it’s one I’m a person of my word & it’s one I’ve done with various companies I have had the privilege to work with


NOW FOR THE BIG ONE THAT EVERYONE NEEDS

Yes the 6.5 BEANMORE

6.5 cal
80hht 85 zoomie ( hh ) 97AH 99hh 100 hht 105AHT 110 hh 112hht 118hht 124hh 125hht

Yes the beanmore is one I love no doubt but I’ll still not get caught up in the creedmoore type hype we have all seen occur

It’s as simple as you treat ea pill as it acts in the critter nothings more nothing less & that is all my findings are
Yes a pill impacts a critter @X & produces Y

Any other thoughts I’ll gladly take on board as I’m trying to simplify this & so far from carsyn22 it will be in cliff notes & there are also going to be seperate threads

Eg
Fordys findings 224cal
Fordys findings 243 cal

That I think has huge merit as people will be able to hone in on there caliber of choice & we don’t get to deep into the weeds or derailed to much
Time will tell on that as my history is not to good on that

So please put ideas forwards here & we will try & simpliy it the best we can


Cheers

Gday
This is from @BigGame on another thread & I can’t say how much this is a lightbulb moment for me so thank you sir

I hope I relay the information for people to see why & what I’m on about but I get so far ahead in my thoughts my type speed gets way behind my thoughts & I can’t relay in written words & go way better talking

Yes I’m a nightmare to understand that I know

So I hope to show less is more from now on in the various threads that will come & on your below question I’ll try & show in this thread what I look for & assess the preformance of a pill & what I look for


( biggame asked here onwards till the capital letters start )
Farleg, thanks for this response.

I’m still a bit unclear on what terminal characteristics at the upper end tip a bullet from optimal to sub-optimal in your definition. If that explanation already exists, just point me to that thread.

I understand you’re talking about terminal phases in three parts: 1) initial expansion pop/bubble, 2) penetration with permanent wounding, and 3) penetration with only temporary wounding. Clearly the first two phases are most meaningful. Your explanation above seems to put a lot of focus on the behavior of the shed petals.

Some further explanation of optimal vs. sub-optimal vs. failure would be helpful.

WOW THAT LAST SENTENCE OF Biggames above hit home for me so thanks again

Cheers

Reason for edit I was inserting where biggame asked as everyone knows I hate edits for me personally & just being upfront )

Gday
@BigGame i hope this is what you mean

Here is when a pill @ high velocity impacts with the wrong bubble/ shapecharge
View attachment FullSizeRender.MOV


The low end impacts I’ll get pictures when I’ve got time

The deer was obviously recovered but I purposely shot this deer in a area where I new a run was going to be contained to a recoverable critter & no way was I going to shoot a deer in a area with that pill where tracking was a concern

So I’ll ask is this a failure or not
That is open to a individuals interpretation

For me personally it is a failure of us not understanding where & what a pill does across various resistances & impacts & I failed the deer but in testing we need to confirm actuals not theories

Yes it’s a hammer but used in a different manner it preforms @ a way better level so I’ll not name it

BUT we can’t go just off that one shot we need to replicate over & over & on the same shot for which I did with that pill numerous times but the wallaby showed it was going to occur I just had to confirm in deer to see if it held weight or not


Yes impact to tip tells us so much & I’ll put those charts up in here also ( this deer impact to tip went way past what I personally like to see & went to the next style of pill to evaluate & so on & these findings are one I’m sharing with you guys for my reason of I had 2 people die lately one a close friend basically I my adopted son corey & just 2 weeks ago a young lady ( Mel ) that passed & the information / knowledge she had is gone forever ( I worked with her on my hunting property for invasive flora species ) so after speaking with a mate on hammertime on various other things our conversations over multiple days , which he made me go you know what he’s correct & hence this thread needs doing now threads ( yes I needed to clear my head again to see the big picture so thanks mate your way ahead of your time
I don’t want anything in return except to see the smile’s especially of kids & if anyone gets anything out of what’s to come will be upto the individual as these are just my findings & one should not take them as gospel as things change & just take the original pills hammer put out to today yes improvements have occurred & I’d expect this to continue

So take my findings as they are just my findings

That’s hopefully enough of a derail from me & please keep me in check as this is hard enough to put together but I’m trying

Cheers

Farleg said:

I had 2 people die lately one a close friend basically I my adopted son corey & just 2 weeks ago a young lady ( Mel ) that passed & the information / knowledge she had is gone forever ( I worked with her on my hunting property for invasive flora species )

Click to expand...

Ouch!

Farleg said:

Gday
@BigGame i hope this is what you mean

Here is when a pill @ high velocity impacts with the wrong bubble/ shapecharge
View attachment 7070
View attachment 7067View attachment 7068View attachment 7071View attachment 7069

The low end impacts I’ll get pictures when I’ve got time

The deer was obviously recovered but I purposely shot this deer in a area where I new a run was going to be contained to a recoverable critter & no way was I going to shoot a deer in a area with that pill where tracking was a concern

So I’ll ask is this a failure or not
That is open to a individuals interpretation

For me personally it is a failure of us not understanding where & what a pill does across various resistances & impacts & I failed the deer but in testing we need to confirm actuals not theories

Yes it’s a hammer but used in a different manner it preforms @ a way better level so I’ll not name it

BUT we can’t go just off that one shot we need to replicate over & over & on the same shot for which I did with that pill numerous times but the wallaby showed it was going to occur I just had to confirm in deer to see if it held weight or not


Yes impact to tip tells us so much & I’ll put those charts up in here also ( this deer impact to tip went way past what I personally like to see & went to the next style of pill to evaluate & so on & these findings are one I’m sharing with you guys for my reason of I had 2 people die lately one a close friend basically I my adopted son corey & just 2 weeks ago a young lady ( Mel ) that passed & the information / knowledge she had is gone forever ( I worked with her on my hunting property for invasive flora species ) so after speaking with a mate on hammertime on various other things our conversations over multiple days , which he made me go you know what he’s correct & hence this thread needs doing now threads ( yes I needed to clear my head again to see the big picture so thanks mate your way ahead of your time
I don’t want anything in return except to see the smile’s especially of kids & if anyone gets anything out of what’s to come will be upto the individual as these are just my findings & one should not take them as gospel as things change & just take the original pills hammer put out to today yes improvements have occurred & I’d expect this to continue

So take my findings as they are just my findings

That’s hopefully enough of a derail from me & please keep me in check as this is hard enough to put together but I’m trying

Cheers

Click to expand...

Hi Farleg. I appreciate the call out.

Am I right that this deer shows an exceptionally violent and shallow expansion bubble? And when you say a high velocity impact, how high do you mean? I’m also curious what kind of RPMs you’re getting - is the high velocity coupled with higher than standard spin rate? Have you tested high velocity with different spin rates?

Promises to be an interesting thread.

You also shared some personal information and I’m sorry for your loss.

Gday biggame I’ll break this down somewhat

BigGame said:

Hi Farleg. I appreciate the call out.

Am I right that this deer shows an exceptionally violent and shallow expansion bubble? And when you say a high velocity impact, how high do you mean?

Click to expand...

spot on above this is around 4k
we took 3 deer that evening ranging from around 3600 to 4400 impacts all roughly the same terminally all very long runs but @least a reaction can be seen

BigGame said:

I’m also curious what kind of RPMs you’re getting - is the high velocity coupled with higher than standard spin rate? Have you tested high velocity with different spin rates?

Click to expand...

Need to somewhat break this down somewhat but basically the higher rpm isn’t flinging the petals as wide as I initially thought so not as big of a concern I was somewhat pleased & relaxed now with the rate of rpm dosent effect it much as it’s more in the design on what it will do in petal pattern & it starts with the shapecharge

My data has showed the hht operate better on a lower sf than the hh or like lines but a balanced pill it must be or that has shown to be the other way around

BigGame said:

Promises to be an interesting thread.

You also shared some personal information and I’m sorry for your loss.

Click to expand...

Thankyou

Cheers

Gday here’s a wound that is around the 3300 mark & different hammer
This one opens a touch quickly which holds it fairly well but was found to lack the penetration length of the bubble on the fairly hard quarter away which resulted in longer runs

Cheers

Gday
This wound channel is consistently good regardless of angle ( this was quater 2 shot exit out gut only taking one lung due to shot placement but great result
Same 3300 ish impact as above but balanced pills have shown this consistency in wounds over a wide velocity in this pills case it will hold this type of wound down to 2700

Cheers

So much for eating breakfast.

The next one is mid impact 2300/400 ish
Consistentcy in killing is very good

PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THIS POINT !!!!

When the shapecharge & the bubble is correct the velocity dosent matter as much
Yes a balanced pill

night all
Cheers