Come on Muddy! This is great stuff (and pretty good photo work Fordy!)So much for eating breakfast.
Some of us delight in "playing patti-cakes" with guts/organs )(@BFD). You can learn A LOT about bullet performance at diff velocities
Fordy’s Findings
- Thread starter Farleg
- Start date
Some of us delight in "playing patti-cakes" with guts/organs )(@BFD). You can learn A LOT about bullet performance at diff velocities
BFD
Hammer Time Executive member
I certainly value the efforts of those who go through all this dirty work so I don't have to!Come on Muddy! This is great stuff (and pretty good photo work Fordy!)
Some of us delight in "playing patti-cakes" with guts/organs )(@BFD). You can learn A LOT about bullet performance at diff velocities
Farleg
Hammer Time Executive member
Gday
Here’s one that shows where the critters distance of impact to tip increses when this occurs which can be with a pill that opens to early or delayed opening & length of the good wound channel not matching the application it’s asked to do it & has occurred across many different velocity impacts
it goes with post 20 of mine below
Cheers
Edit was a simple & added
Here’s one that shows where the critters distance of impact to tip increses when this occurs which can be with a pill that opens to early or delayed opening & length of the good wound channel not matching the application it’s asked to do it & has occurred across many different velocity impacts
it goes with post 20 of mine below
Need to delve into velocity brackets on the above for a bit more clarity to which will come but only partially completed so far on hht & like to do @least the 22 & 243 cal as a minimum before I’ll delve deeper on those so stay tuned I’ll update those asap
Cheers
Edit was a simple & added
Not while I am eating scrambled eggs!
Otherwise all in and try to do same. Except I don't take pictures. Be kind of weird on phone trying to explain at some time!
BFD
Hammer Time Executive member
Can you imagine what putting chocolate & orange juice in chilli would taste like?Not while I am eating scrambled eggs!
Farleg
Hammer Time Executive member
Gday
BALANCED PILLS have shown to be the utmost beneficial part in giving consistent results which have a few different parts to get this outcome
petal behaviour /pattern
Shank length
Shank meplat
Depth /diameter of hp
These affect the speed of the shank/petal pattern & wound channel overall get it balanced & a lighter weight pill will outperform a heavier @ the same impact velocity
But we can’t go lighter is better than heavier or heavier is better than lighter
As a line seems to exist on what size pill can be balanced & this also can be dictated by critter size but that aside the best balanced pills have been found in the midweight category
Some calibers I’ve really found it hard to find balanced pills but it can be done im sure as has proven to be the case when tinkering/tweaking has occurred throughout my journey
Yes still room for improvement some a little some a lot
Cheers
BALANCED PILLS have shown to be the utmost beneficial part in giving consistent results which have a few different parts to get this outcome
petal behaviour /pattern
Shank length
Shank meplat
Depth /diameter of hp
These affect the speed of the shank/petal pattern & wound channel overall get it balanced & a lighter weight pill will outperform a heavier @ the same impact velocity
But we can’t go lighter is better than heavier or heavier is better than lighter
As a line seems to exist on what size pill can be balanced & this also can be dictated by critter size but that aside the best balanced pills have been found in the midweight category
Some calibers I’ve really found it hard to find balanced pills but it can be done im sure as has proven to be the case when tinkering/tweaking has occurred throughout my journey
Yes still room for improvement some a little some a lot
Cheers
good question 
Desert Hunter
New member
I’m hoping the 138 HHT is a balanced pill for my 308. That’s what I am planning to load up for my son’s elk hunt this fall. I also have a 6.5 PRC (lightweight rifle, so too much recoil for him) and a couple bigger options, but I’m trying to find the right balance of recoil and terminal ballistics.
Farleg
Hammer Time Executive member
Gday reemtyj
hmm
I knew you would be lurking with one of these questions
It really is hard to throw a blanket over that statement as it needs to be broken down somewhat
So a little homework for you before you no doubt will come again
What critter
What range
What rifle
What climate we shooting in relation to ammo handling/cycling etc
Yes I’m not sold on all the hht just like I am with the other lines as a one pill fits all
I do plan on showing where the line was crossed on certain pills of eg to big or too low/high impact etc & preformance dropped off from the bracket where that pill worked better etc
Getting a pill to work very well across all I’ve not seen any brand any pill do that as they cross over ea other & why the above is the questions we need to ask ourselves first
Yes I’m not talking a dead critter as if that’s all ones after go shoot what one wants as a old musket & ball will do that till it dosent
Side note a bit like @Desert Hunter put up just range needed but he’s chosen well imo & one we need to discuss the what choices & why but if you don’t mind can this wait till the 30 cal thread findings come up or whatever caliber one wants to talk in the caliber of choice for them as people won’t need to weigh through multiple posts that are not applicable for them
I guess like balancing a pill we need to balance how we can find stuff & make it easier for everyone ( especially me )
Sorry to blow you guys off I think it’s a good idea
Cheers
338rum bears/elk 0-700 yards. 1-9.3 twist
300rum blackies/deer/elk 0-700 yards 1-10 twist
338-06AI blackies/deer/elk 0-500 yards 1-10 twist
6XC coyotes/deer/antelope 0-700 yards 1-7.5 twist
You can’t brush me off that easy Buddy!!!
I suppose you want to know if it’s sunny or cloudy too ???
300rum blackies/deer/elk 0-700 yards 1-10 twist
338-06AI blackies/deer/elk 0-500 yards 1-10 twist
6XC coyotes/deer/antelope 0-700 yards 1-7.5 twist
You can’t brush me off that easy Buddy!!!
I suppose you want to know if it’s sunny or cloudy too ???
Last edited:
Desert Hunter
New member
Thanks for the validation of choice. Range will be sub 500, obviously with a preference for shorter.Gday reemtyj
hmm
I knew you would be lurking with one of these questions
It really is hard to throw a blanket over that statement as it needs to be broken down somewhat
So a little homework for you before you no doubt will come again
What critter
What range
What rifle
What climate we shooting in relation to ammo handling/cycling etc
Yes I’m not sold on all the hht just like I am with the other lines as a one pill fits all
I do plan on showing where the line was crossed on certain pills of eg to big or too low/high impact etc & preformance dropped off from the bracket where that pill worked better etc
Getting a pill to work very well across all I’ve not seen any brand any pill do that as they cross over ea other & why the above is the questions we need to ask ourselves first
Yes I’m not talking a dead critter as if that’s all ones after go shoot what one wants as a old musket & ball will do that till it dosent
Side note a bit like @Desert Hunter put up just range needed but he’s chosen well imo & one we need to discuss the what choices & why but if you don’t mind can this wait till the 30 cal thread findings come up or whatever caliber one wants to talk in the caliber of choice for them as people won’t need to weigh through multiple posts that are not applicable for them
I guess like balancing a pill we need to balance how we can find stuff & make it easier for everyone ( especially me )
Sorry to blow you guys off I think it’s a good idea
Cheers
That list would help me out too! I’d only like to add a bullet for whitetail out of my 280 AI from 5-700 yds.
Yep - but more specifically with a 10” twist.
BFD
Hammer Time Executive member
I was just thinking a straight forward format for readers to make an easier selection and I think you nailed it. Make it easier on Fordy too. Even separate to categories of deer and elk with the deer category including blackies and the elk including hogs. Now the brown bears and dangerous game in their own category. Just brainstorming here.338rum bears/elk 0-700 yards. 1-9.3 twist
300rum blackies/deer/elk 0-700 yards 1-10 twist
338-06AI blackies/deer/elk 0-500 yards 1-10 twist
6XC coyotes/deer/antelope 0-700 yards 1-7.5 twist
You can’t brush me off that easy Buddy!!!
I suppose you want to know if it’s sunny or cloudy too ???
” or “that F-ing guy from Tas-Dam-Mania “ ??? 
Farleg
Hammer Time Executive member
Gday
Next part that’s been fascinating to follow is certain pills exhibit 2stages of petal separation
This without a doubt when the pill is balanced gives us a little more consistent kill over a little wider velocity range
here’s a couple different petal styles
Some pills have a couple styles in it’s repertoire depending on what impact others also have only one ( well in the testing range I done them @ or ones I dabbled with )
These styles also show a tendency of what petal pattern they produce
These styles can be tracked back to a design of ea hammer
The flatter ones have shown incredible penetrating abilities where the snail like we need to go back to the secontial density equations & basically more mass is needed to get the same length Penetration
This has shown on the later to be incredible on the way these pills drop off on the curve of killing efficiency
Now they will kill no doubt but impact to tip shows a clear line exists between the 2 with the flatter petals & or 2stage take that 2 the next level again which the greatest number of pill’s being in the midweight category
Cheers
Next part that’s been fascinating to follow is certain pills exhibit 2stages of petal separation
This without a doubt when the pill is balanced gives us a little more consistent kill over a little wider velocity range
here’s a couple different petal styles
Some pills have a couple styles in it’s repertoire depending on what impact others also have only one ( well in the testing range I done them @ or ones I dabbled with )
These styles also show a tendency of what petal pattern they produce
These styles can be tracked back to a design of ea hammer
The flatter ones have shown incredible penetrating abilities where the snail like we need to go back to the secontial density equations & basically more mass is needed to get the same length Penetration
This has shown on the later to be incredible on the way these pills drop off on the curve of killing efficiency
Now they will kill no doubt but impact to tip shows a clear line exists between the 2 with the flatter petals & or 2stage take that 2 the next level again which the greatest number of pill’s being in the midweight category
Cheers
Farleg
Hammer Time Executive member
Gday Brad
I like that has me ticking some more as KISS is the best
So let’s look @ deer & GL vrs kneedeeps
A line is between these as they have also shown eg the 85zoomie & you can see this in most critters as mass increases the pill that works on the smaller starts to show its curve on killing effecicency is dropping off
So I’ll try & place a weight in the notes to come in ea calibre
But we need to take the DG extremely seriously as those guys are a different kettle of fish
Cheers