25-06 Throat length and Hammer selection

Koda

Koda

Hammer Time Executive member
I have my old 25-06 at a gunsmith getting rebuilt with a new barrel: 26in 7 twist, and the chamber will be Ackley Improved. This will be a dedicated long range open country deer/antelope rifle.

Help me understand what I need in throat length to shoot longer/heavier bullets, specifically Hammers. As a bonus Im open to bullet discussion but Im fairly biased on either the 117g Absolute or the 127g HHT.

My questions:
My understanding is the longer/heavier bullets need a longer throat, is that true?

If so, does a longer throat mean too much jump for the shorter/lighter bullets that are on the other end of the spectrum? Note: Im not a varmint hunter, so I dont think I will ever see using this rifle for say prairie dogs etc. That said, Im curious what the lighter limitation would be if I had the rifle throated longer for the heavies, I dont think Id be interested in shooting any lighter than the 90g Absolute Hammer (if I even wanted to experiment with lighter projectiles).


1687395829048.png
 
joe16 said:
Love that old Remington👍
Click to expand...
Thank you. Its about 30yrs old inherited from my late father and has some serious miles under it in all kinds of weather. Up until I decided to replace the barrel its been my true "one gun" quiver for everything.
 
joe16 said:
May I ask why you're changing the barrel?
Click to expand...
Its old and shot out. We owned it long before I knew how to clean and shoot guns for longevity. The bore is heavily pitted, the crown is dinged, the carbon ring in the neck of the chamber was so bad it was causing overpressure in even factory ammo.
 
Remington doesn't make 'em like they used to, that's for sure. Really nice piece of wood too.

A 1:7 twist on that beauty will be a great fusion of classic meets state of the art.

Remington (and Weatherby) are famous for excessive freebore in factory rifles. Did you ever find the lands on the on the original barrel?

As to your question, I think 'need' is a strong word, but heavy bullets can certainly benefit from freebore.

The simplest way to explore this concept is to load dummy rounds of the bullets you intend to shoot, and send the dummies to the gunsmith for reference when they perform the chambering operation.

While freebore can be determined mathematically, in the above manner feeding can be verified, and you can be absolutely certain of what you are asking for.

For me it's a careful balance of getting as many drive bands in the case neck as possible without taking up too much room inside the cartridge for powder, then fine tuning to get the case mouth on a good spot in a PDR valley for crimping

Ultimately Hammers are very forgiving when it comes to seating depth, or distance to the lands, so a little extra freebore is not going to hurt.
 
hand skills said:
For me it's a careful balance of getting as many drive bands in the case neck as possible without taking up too much room inside the cartridge for powder, then fine tuning to get the case mouth on a good spot in a PDR valley for crimping
Click to expand...
This is what Ive learned to do with my other hammer calibers, being somewhat new to hammers this is reassuring. Ive noticed others seat deeper but I read a while ago somewhere its not ideal to seat past the lower neck transition on the case.

I think the idea of sending the smith some dummy loads is good, I've already let him know I plan to shoot the longer heavies so hes prepared to throat as needed. I'll have to decide on a sample pack between the Absolute and the new HHT, probably whichever is longer... Im aware Hammers arent sensitive to jump....

But I still wonder about if there can be too much jump for the lighter bullets on the opposite end of the spectrum. Maybe with cup and cores but maybe not with Hammers. I dont know.
 
Heres my best guess, maybe I will give up on the lighter end what I gain on the heavier end....

note: traditionally bullets started at about 60 grains with the heaviest bullets for the 25-06 at 120g. Newer bullets are up to about 135grains now for newer faster twist barrels. So maybe its too much jump for the 60 to 75 grainers on the light end. I could easily live with that.
If I ever wanted to chase a faster lighter bullet Id probably not go below about 90 grains, 100 preferrable IMO anyways for this caliber. Its getting late but maybe tomorrow I will compare lengths but if I throat for the longer and the lighter is less than or about 3/8" shorter then I think they could handle that jump...?
 
hand skills said:
Remington doesn't make 'em like they used to, that's for sure. Really nice piece of wood too.
Click to expand...
here is what that stock looked like before I refinished it. Years of hard use and miles in Oregon rains and snow. The rifle has been a true workhorse, between my dad and I took the most game with it... and when we got it neither of us know of the 25's legendary potential (nor how to care for it).

1687412377063.png
 
Koda said:
Heres my best guess, maybe I will give up on the lighter end what I gain on the heavier end....

note: traditionally bullets started at about 60 grains with the heaviest bullets for the 25-06 at 120g. Newer bullets are up to about 135grains now for newer faster twist barrels. So maybe its too much jump for the 60 to 75 grainers on the light end. I could easily live with that.
If I ever wanted to chase a faster lighter bullet Id probably not go below about 90 grains, 100 preferrable IMO anyways for this caliber. Its getting late but maybe tomorrow I will compare lengths but if I throat for the longer and the lighter is less than or about 3/8" shorter then I think they could handle that jump...?
Click to expand...
I’d throat it for the 127HHT in the second valley. The 97 AH has quite a few bands… I’m sure you can get two in the neck.😉
 
Likewise, I would throat it for the longest bullet to take advantage of the 700 long magazine capability. Maximize your case capacity for better powder case density to take advantage of the Hammer PDR's. I did this for .270 build with 156HH which turned out fantastic. Send at least 2 dummies with bullet to GS.

IMG_4233.jpeg
 
So, I agree with everyone to throat this for the longest bullet. It only makes sense if Im going down this fast twist barrel road. The 127g HHT is the clear winner here despite being technically the second longest bullet. I need to order some samples, seat a couple and send to my gunsmith.



As for the lighter limits the question is if there is a limit or maximum on bullet jump and what is that?
I crunched some numbers using the 127g HHT as the baseline: 1.505" long

The 90gAH is 1.05" long, a difference of .455"... so Im assuming adding that to whatever jump the throat is reamed for the 127gHHT?

The 110gHH is 1.277" long, a difference of .228".... I think that would be ok.

Whats the longest jump thats reasonable?
 
Koda

Let Me ease your mind. there's nobody that's shot or nobody that I know of that has shot a shorter Hammer bullet than I have. I've ground a 30 caliber bullet down to 61 grains and a 22 caliber bullet down to 21 grains. Here's a few pictures of the rounds that I've shot, one picture of the group and here's some numbers that I jotted down two nights ago when I received my Hornady modified case for the 300 rum. I've actually been running in the dark for years I just got it Monday.

Throat that sucker long and rest assured that the short bullets will follow along right smartly!!

Joe
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20230622_214552_Photos.jpg
    Screenshot_20230622_214552_Photos.jpg
    652 KB · Views: 16
  • Screenshot_20230622_214454_Photos.jpg
    Screenshot_20230622_214454_Photos.jpg
    403.6 KB · Views: 14
  • Screenshot_20230622_213419_Photos.jpg
    Screenshot_20230622_213419_Photos.jpg
    700.8 KB · Views: 11
  • Screenshot_20230622_213105_Photos.jpg
    Screenshot_20230622_213105_Photos.jpg
    146 KB · Views: 14
If I can locate one of the 61 grainers for the 30 caliber not sure if I'd shot them all up but I will measure I wouldn't be surprised if the jump was close to .4
 

Attachments

  • 20230621_193253.jpg
    20230621_193253.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 14
Koda,
don't be too worried as everyone has mentioned already.
But just wanted to mention a flaw in your measurements (Surprised that nobody had said anything yet).
Your ah bullet, they don't have a shoulder thats going to touch the lands anyway.
They are not going to touch till the first pdr band. So you see everyone shooting ah bullet are jumping ALOT!
Go with a little jump w/127hht and your all good.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top