338 RUM 225 SH opinions/ suggestion/ bloviating welcome

R

Reemtyj

Hammer Time Executive member
People,
Getting ready for a coastal Brownie this spring, have been experimenting with the 235HH with good results in accuracy and velocity (3200 fps) but I have to seat it in tooooooo far to fit my magazine. Keep in mind the possibility of shooting beyond 300 yards is probably not welcome from the guide, but I will have the ability to shoot past 500 yards! Any way I have been in war council with the “ faraway friend “ the drinker of mothers milk, the bundy guzzler, Russell Coight, himself! We came up with the thought of, why not the 225 SH?? Retains 80 % weight for deep penetration and bone breaking shooting, in my opinion, it will be short range and have the ability to run that bullet north of 3300 fps with ease, not sure close to 3400 may be possible? I was just wondering what any of you key board bullet wizards think? The ones who forgot more than I know. The ones with experiance with the Shock Hammer bullet!
Please offer your advice and thoughts as I have less than 6 weeks and I just ordered 50–225 SH bullets and since I am so close I will have them in 2-3 days! Excellent Hammer service!
Let the games begin………..or in the words of the referee of my favorite sport “ ready……Wrestle” !
 
Send them with confidence!
Confidence is one of the most important things to your success.
Confidence in your equipment, shot placement, and a bullet that's going to crush what it hits!

I like the sh line, I think it's a great under-rated work horse.
We all gravitate towards the shiny new toy, either chasing bc for some(maybe alot) isn't necessarily needed. Some do need it(high bc).
Killed 2 deer with sh bullets.
Frontal with a 6.5cm 117sh 315yrds front to back, shank in rear ham.
Second 308 w/130sh 245yrds broadside.
Both traveled a little bit, no cns no large broken bones.

Maybe I have a bias towards hammers😇
But I have never needed a second hammer of any variety for a follow up.
Sh, hh, ah, on deer.
This is with no bear experience, though.
Take lots of pics please for us..
 
I've never hunted brown bear or grizzly.....but have seen hammers crush a huge black bear. Our 260 grain HH out of a 338 lapua at 330 yards traveled 3-4 feet through a bear crushing it spine and ribs and we never found the shank. Point being.....338 Rum with a 175 HH or 235 SH would get the job done with authority!!! I have 100% confidence in these bullets, especially when your talking about penetration on dangerous game. My guess is the shank of either of the above bullets punches in one side and out the other regardless of the bone it hits, leaving a devastating wound channel between.

We crushed another bear this last fall with a 300 wsm pushing the 168 grain HH and never found that shank either. Matter of fact, I have yet to find a shank in any animal we have shot.

Speed kills and I suspect with a 338 rum you could run that 175 upwards of 3500+ fps.
 
Reemtyj said:
We came up with the thought of, why not the 225 SH?? Retains 80 % weight for deep penetration and bone breaking shooting, in my opinion, it will be short range and have the ability to run that bullet north of 3300 fps with ease, not sure close to 3400 may be possible? I was just wondering what any of you key board bullet wizards think? The ones who forgot more than I know. The ones with experiance with the Shock Hammer bullet!
Please offer your advice and thoughts as I have less than 6 weeks and I just ordered 50–225 SH bullets and since I am so close I will have them in 2-3 days! Excellent Hammer service!
Click to expand...
1) Here's what we know. You're leaving soon, and if you don't want to use your hunting knife you need to decide.
2) The "old guide" rule on shooting big bears is @ least 50 yards, less than 150. Situation will dictate, but 300 yards can be a stretch. Run a calculation on JBM, and velocity at 500 is OK, but not overwhelming for sure. About 200 yards might be my maximum.
3) Lots of bears shot with less, lots of bears shot with more, you're comfortably in the middle.

Expectations: Bear is going to be on its feet for a bit regardless. This is where you need that good conversation with your guide about what happen in those 10-15 seconds. Everybody goes home with a good story, and no punctures in more than pride.

Order at least another 50, and practice on bear targets if possible.

You'll have a great time. Definitely a story we're wanting to hear.

The Shock Hammers are a personal favorite.
 
riceman said:
Send them with confidence!
Confidence is one of the most important things to your success.
Confidence in your equipment, shot placement, and a bullet that's going to crush what it hits!

I like the sh line, I think it's a great under-rated work horse.
We all gravitate towards the shiny new toy, either chasing bc for some(maybe alot) isn't necessarily needed. Some do need it(high bc).
Killed 2 deer with sh bullets.
Frontal with a 6.5cm 117sh 315yrds front to back, shank in rear ham.
Second 308 w/130sh 245yrds broadside.
Both traveled a little bit, no cns no large broken bones.

Maybe I have a bias towards hammers😇
But I have never needed a second hammer of any variety for a follow up.
Sh, hh, ah, on deer.
This is with no bear experience, though.
Take lots of pics please for us..
Click to expand...
X-2
 
I shoot the 225SH out of my 338 RPM. I think it's the right bullet to choose for your application. A friend of mine is a bear guide on Kodiak. 150 is his max allowed range for a client. Load up the 225 and get confident and you'll be in good shape. Practice quick follow up reloading and shots.
 
spokenfly said:
I shoot the 225SH out of my 338 RPM. I think it's the right bullet to choose for your application. A friend of mine is a bear guide on Kodiak. 150 is his max allowed range for a client. Load up the 225 and get confident and you'll be in good shape. Practice quick follow up reloading and shots.
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Good morning spokenfly

Do you have any on game experience with the 225sh? I’d love to hear about the results if so.

Kneedeep
 
@Reemtyj

The 220-225 weight seems to be a good all around lighter weight pill in the 338s. I really like the look and proportions of the 186sh but it might be on the line of too light for a large animal, depending on the angle. No question the 186sh shank will get enough penetration, I only question the depth of the bubble and petals as the sh goes wide.

I’ve had more conversations with Farleg regarding the 338 pills on buff. One of his mates that shoots a lot of buff with the 338 has used the 225ttsx Barnes for years. He stated that the 223hh performed relatively the same as the 225ttsx.

With all this said, the 225sh will have a short wide bubble and petals compared to the 223hh, great for broadside shots. The 223hh will have a deeper bubble and petals which might be better for quartering on or away shots through the shoulder.

Also thinking about shot placement on these bears, I would want to shoot to break a front shoulder or two, depending on the angle. My gut says either pill will work well on a shoulder shot with spine shock. A quartering away shot or steep quartering to I’d prefer the depth of the 223hh.

Considering the terrain you’ll be hunting, damage to the hp/meplat would be a consideration. Depending on how you carry your ammo on this hunt, the 223hh is likely to get damaged easier than the 225sh.

I was really hoping the 338hhts would be ready in time for these big bear hunts, unfortunately it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

Good luck
Kneedeep
 
Lots of great common sense advise and examples, thank you all for interjecting and helping! This group never disappoints always excels at helping, rethinking and pushing the envelope to better understanding and mainly a better bullet! 🤝👍🍺🍺🇺🇸😉 I will keep you all posted on preliminary preparation and the hunt!
 
jrebel said:
I've never hunted brown bear or grizzly.....but have seen hammers crush a huge black bear. Our 260 grain HH out of a 338 lapua at 330 yards traveled 3-4 feet through a bear crushing it spine and ribs and we never found the shank. Point being.....338 Rum with a 175 HH or 235 SH would get the job done with authority!!! I have 100% confidence in these bullets, especially when your talking about penetration on dangerous game. My guess is the shank of either of the above bullets punches in one side and out the other regardless of the bone it hits, leaving a devastating wound channel between.

We crushed another bear this last fall with a 300 wsm pushing the 168 grain HH and never found that shank either. Matter of fact, I have yet to find a shank in any animal we have shot.

Speed kills and I suspect with a 338 rum you could run that 175 upwards of 3500+ fps.
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I agree with jrebel. That said, I would go with the heaviest bullet you are comfortable with because of the guide's limitations, I personally would use the 282 Shock Hammer. You have the horsepower using the RUM. I've shot a lot of black bears, some big. Bears are interesting animals. For their size their bone structure isn't near as robust as one would think. My friend Geoff shot one with his bow. We went back a few weeks after he had taken the hide and head. I was expecting massive bones, not so. I shot one with an 06 and a 180 grain bullet. All of my other bears have been shot with a 45/70. Bear hair can do funny things to a bullet. I like the long shank of the shock hammer. I'll be hunting Bears with Shock Hammers next month.
 
Les, I would discount using the 282sh a few reason, the lower velocity factor and along that line, possibly a more subdued bubble of damage. The 225 at 3300+ is more what a hammer is designed for instead of a 282 at 2700-2800 wouldn’t you agree? No disrespect intended, sir! Afraid I would miss out with the “ whack “ factor. Maybe Russel Coight, when he wakes up can provide experience to this on some of those buff or wild cattle…..depending on the amount of mothers milk he may have consumed last night the response could be delayed! 🤷🏽🤷🏽🤷🏽
Les, but in retrospect I just looked at the 255SH and have the ability to run that at 3000 fps, may be interesting, let’s see what Coight, says or anyone else also! At 80% shank retention, the 225 is an 180 grain shank, the 255 is an 204 grain shank… not sure there would be a noticeable difference 🤷🏽
 
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I was thinking more about the 150 yard limitation. The 282 would be able to penetrate a large bear from north to south. With that long shank you would have a bubble for a longer time period. All of that said, I don't think you could go wrong with the 225. I'm not sure where you are hunting, but I keep going back to hunting elk in the Pacific Northwest Rain Forest. Unless I was working a clear-cut, a long shot was always less than 200 yards. I'm going to cut to the chase. If I was going on your hunt, I would give Steve at Hammer Bullets a call and get his recommendations. Steve and Brian are unusual guys, they listen to the hunters who use their bullets, and they shoot lots of critters. They also make so many bullets for each caliber it makes it hard to pick! I'll be hunting bears with the 35 Whelen this year using the 245 grain Shock Hammer. I'd say that bullet is close to the 225 in 338. I wouldn't discount what Riceman said. Confidence is important. If you feel confident with the 225, I'd go with it! I was thinking worst case scenario with the 282.
 
Kodiak Island, I also thought the 225SH as I will use whatever 220-225 HHT they come up with in this rifle for other hunts also. Your reasoning is solid Les!🤝👍
Beeman I just received my rifle a week ago, custom 338 RUM on a Remington action, 26” barrel, coulee brake, 1-9.3 twist Barlein, 1.5# trigger tech trigger. All my rifles are 1.5#. Magazine limits me somewhat as it is 3.67”. I have an illuminated 2.5x20-50mm NX8 on it. I have started with the 235HH as you can see in the share your Hammer load data thread. In a day or less it is easy to work up a load for a hammer. With the 235 and RL 22 velocity was just above 3200 and 5/8” three shot group.
 
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I have not shot a brown or grizzly but have filmed two coastal brown bear kills and one inland grizzly kill. I have also filmed a grizzly charge. The difference between a calm bear and one on adrenaline are two different animals in my opinion. This is why I believe the first shot is so important. I believe the first shot is critical. A well placed shot with a good bullet will result in a fairly quick kill. A poorly placed first shot will likely end completely different as the adrenaline will kick in without the rapid loss of blood and or spine shock.

The one coastal brown I filmed getting shot with a rifle was around 200 yards with a 30-06. I don’t know what ammo other than factory. The bear ran a few yards and fell over dead. He never knew we were there.

I filmed one coastal brown around 20 yards, standing up on his hind legs looking at us. He was shot in the chest with a recurve bow and a two blade broadhead. The bear didn’t travel but a few yards, less than 10 seconds from what I remember.

The other inland grizzly was shot broadside with a recurve and two blade head. The bear was walking and hit back a little in the liver area. It was shot at dark and allowed to lay overnight before tracking. The best I remember is there was enough blood to trail the bear around 150-200 yards were he lay stiff. He had laid down and expired well before morning.

I also have another buddy who has shot 7 or 8 grizzly bears with his recurve bow and a two blade broadhead. He says they are not tough to kill and laughs when talking about guys who shoot these bears multiple times with a rifle.

From my limited experience I don’t believe these bears are tough to kill unless on adrenaline. I have heard multiple stories of bears taking many shots to kill. I believe it’s from poor bullet selection and or poorly placed first shots.

Besides reemtyj, I know of three other guys hunting brown bear on the peninsula in may. Of these three, one I don’t know what bullet/caliber he’s shooting yet, one is undecided and one is shooting the 338rum with 250gr elite hunters. The guy shooting the bergers is a guide in the SW. I’m guessing he’s planning on a high shoulder shot and is a guy that’s plenty capable of making a great shot. I’m watching with great interest on the outcome of these hunts.

If it were me, I’d be practicing a lot of hunting situation shots to include some offhand close shots. I would be practicing everywhere and position other than the bench.

Kneedeep
 
Kneedeep excellent assessment, sound advice taken , thank you! Of the many videos on Brown bear hunts I have watched that used the high shoulder/spine shot they drop flat right there. I have studied the skeletal anatomy photos and like most animals the spine thru the shoulder area is lower than one would guess. Looks like 10-12” at least below the top of the hump. Also watched two where the bear is on all fours facing them with head down and they were shot from the forward angle into that same spine shoulder area and they both died instantly.
 
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Reemtyj said:
Les, I would discount using the 282sh a few reason, the lower velocity factor and along that line, possibly a more subdued bubble of damage. The 225 at 3300+ is more what a hammer is designed for instead of a 282 at 2700-2800 wouldn’t you agree? No disrespect intended, sir! Afraid I would miss out with the “ whack “ factor. Maybe Russel Coight, when he wakes up can provide experience to this on some of those buff or wild cattle…..depending on the amount of mothers milk he may have consumed last night the response could be delayed! 🤷🏽🤷🏽🤷🏽
Les, but in retrospect I just looked at the 255SH and have the ability to run that at 3000 fps, may be interesting, let’s see what Coight, says or anyone else also! At 80% shank retention, the 225 is an 180 grain shank, the 255 is an 204 grain shank… not sure there would be a noticeable difference 🤷🏽
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Your on the right track brother
 
@kneedeep , I have only shot one animal with the 225 SH. My muzzle velocity is only about 2626 fps in my 18" RPM barrel. The Sitka blacktail deer was quartering hard to me. I hadn't put an animal down at this point of the season and I was feeling hungry! so I didn't wait for a perfect broadside shot. I aimed and hit the near side knuckle joint, passing through the far side ribs if I remember correctly. The animal ran about 10 yards and piled up in a muskeg hole. The front near shoulder was blown up, and mostly unusable. Shank passed through far ribs. I don't remember finding any petals.

Hoping to put this bullet on a black bear this spring after I get the bedding sorted out on this Weatherby Backcountry 2.0. Also hoping to try the 186SH to get some more speed, but in reality will probably wait for the HHT to arrive before buying more bullets
 
Even though I have challenges with the 235 seating depth to fit my magazine, I am using them to see the velocity and accuracy potential in this rifle, single feed. Shot three groups this morning at 45 degrees, keep in mind only 40 rounds have been thru this barrel. I am shooting off a bench with bench bipod and rabbit ear bag on back of the stock. Firm hold on gun as I find that a rifle with some recoil, I shoot them better with firm hold.

235HH, 88 grains RL19, oal 3.709, 1/4 turn crimp, 3167 velocity 3/8” 3 shot group @100 yards
90.5 grains RL22, oal 3.709, 1/4 turn crimp, 3185 velocity 7/16” 3 shot group
90.5 grains RL22, oal 3.709, 1/4 turn crimp, 3283 velocity, 2 in jagged hole 1 pulled and 5/8” low, operator error.

Seems like I am gaining speed and not sure why other than barrel getting polished up. I notice the first shot on a clean barrel is slower than those after. I would have to say between the gunsmith building an accurate rifle and hammers being easy to work up an accurate load, this is a lot of fun/success! I realize these RL powders are temperature sensitive, but they give great velocity and accuracy, and are top end both. If I can get it in the case RL25 may give even more velocity.
 
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