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Steve Davis

Steve Davis

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Here is a documentary that we participated in about the effects of lead on birds of prey. We are most definitely not for legislation against lead bullets for hunting. We would much rather have people find us and use us because we make a better product than what they have used before. With that said, I have talked to enough people that are highly educated and deal with lead toxicity in birds to understand that it is a real thing that comes form them eating lead contaminated meat and gut piles. The problem is that the birds have the ability to break down lead to the point that they can absorb it, and it is a cumulative effect. There is definitely an uptick in the problem during big game hunting season when the birds of prey are transitioning from hunting live prey to scavenging dead animals going into the winter.

Again, terminal performance was the reason that we got into lead free pure copper bullet production. Nothing else. We also look at ourselves as stewards of the land and the animals that inhabit it. If something as simple as using pure copper bullets for hunting big and small game will make a difference in populations of scavenger birds and birds of prey, that is a good thing. I liken it to when we stopped using DDT on crops and it made a huge difference in the birds of prey and their nesting success. Anyway here is the documentary. I was very apprehensive about doing it because we did not want to be painted as the "mean hunters". I think it turned out well.

 
That’s great, Steve!
Confession: I never bothered to consider the scavengers. Selfishly, I had only considered the possibility of lead in the meat I harvest for my family.
Not that I am one to toot the horn of the wacko environmentalists, but I do “feel better about myself” now after having switched to Hammers. 😀
 
Great video!!

One of the things that lead (yuck yuck) me to Hammers. Well, that and I couldn't find any Accubonds during the shortage.

I was 100% against copper, thanks to the whacko politics around it in Commiefornia that I dealt with when I was stationed there. Thankfully, a good friend and MT Master Hunter edumacated me on the issue surrounding lead. So, when Accubonds became fairy dust and the cost of copper was no longer an issue, another friend pointed me at Hammer....the rest is history.

Here's a good podcast by another friend down in Missoula that you saw in the video, Everett Headley. The person person he interviews on the podcast (Mike McTee) is also in the video: https://www.elevatethehunt.com/podcast/episode/4ca0b281/hunters-leading-in-lead-free-ammunition

If you like that one, you should give his podcast a listen.
 
You can thank the gun control movement for the widespread rejection of copper bullets in the hunting community, but I think the science is easy enough to understand, hunters especially as conservationists and stewards of the land really should put wildlife first.
Terminal performance was my primary concern, Originally I was going to start handloading Partitions until I started learning about copper bullets from what I understand I think coppers have exceeded lead and what I understand about Hammers they act similar to a partition without the microfragmenting makes them exceed other copper monolithics.
 
Gday
Nice video Steve well done & thanks for sharing
Nice posts all above & I’ll check that out rich 👍
Puts a few more things in perspective for me & my home property & hunting property the penny dropped a little more

Our wedge tailed eagles ( my favourite bird of prey ) vist my properties & have a nest on the edge of my home property that frequently give us the pleasure of young
Yep I’m glad I use hammers predominantly

I have a question for the knowledgeable ones
Does the 22lr still cause the same small lead pieces/ particles or does the lack of speed limit this 🤷‍♂️
A 22lr is by far the most widely used & I have around 20 k of them a year on my properties used & in the winter I do leave the odd wallaby or possum out for the wedgies so is this a concern 🤷‍♂️

Overall I’m pretty sure I’ll only leave hammer shot ones out now on the rocks but if it’s known I can spread the word around the traps on being a bit more careful of our waste carcasses

On the history of copper getting a bad name I’ll say rightly so initially as they needed a lot of speed to work well & hit bone was also advisable
Plenty of work on monos in the early days that also didn’t help the move forward & so many quote individuals with information that’s completely outdated even today it happens on a regular basis
but lucky we had European bullet makers who created the stand alone out of the box type pills ( I think it was them well it was the first ones I’d seen /used ) that today a few brands including hammers shouldn’t be likened to the old mono world technology ( mushroom) now the shedding variety while these are also a mixed bag they on the whole are a better option than the mushroom monos ( well the ones I’ve tested & that’s a few now ) & one is the market leader in killing efficiency across the board & just stepped ahead of a closing in pack again & I’ll let those guess on who that is 😇

@Koda I liken hammers more like a hybrid of the ballistic tip & a woodleigh hydro but yours still a good one


The advances in the mono world have been amazing & i for one have already put my voice out there stating monos are going to be the most popular hunting bullet in years to come regardless of legislation & this type of information for me makes more sense& will push the envelope that but more
So I say don’t be scared on voicing our true conservation status as hunters as we have a huge role to play so our kids & their kids are blessed to see the birds of prey like we do today

I don’t fear tree huggers or wakko environmentalists as I’ll discuss anything with facts & the whole picture for the big picture but some of those nut jobs are just that & can’t see the wood from the trees let alone listen for which those should be avoided like the plague if they can’t give soloutions , yep the bottom line no Band-Aid
Sorry for my rant it’s close to my heart , just trying to make my little piece of our world just a little better well I hope & I try
Cheers
 
Very eye opening and well done.
I too never really considered the lead left in gut piles for scavengers.
Been using Hammers for several years now, and went to them for a totally different reason originally. I got tired of using lead bullets and blowing up so much good meat. Hammer Hunters and Absolutes kill very efficiently with minimal meat damage.
This just gives me one more reason to prefer Hammers.
The discussion on the podcast is very dated as to copper bullet performance. It's accurate as to old copper technology, but Hammer projectiles are in a whole different section of the library.
The newest prototypes will turn yet another page in the killing efficiency "book". Hunters using mid-sized cartridges will have a huge window of optimum performance🙂.
Hats off to Steve and Brian for continuously pursuing excellence!
 
Steve Davis said:
If the 22lr is lead and it stays in the carcass, it doesn't matter if it is fragmented. If the bird ingests it then it can be a problem.
Click to expand...
Gday Steve 👍
Got that part & that’s not my main concern here which I should’ve been clearer as 99plus % are little pademelon or brushtail possums & head or chest shots with the pill exiting ( not that is trying to cover up as I’m all for learning & helping just trying to find out if I NEED to adjust my parameters) so I don’t have to worry about the pill itself ( I’m not saying that 1% is not worth worrying about I can manage that part ) it’s the 22lr @ the reduced velocity over high velocity that has me asking if the 22lr has fragment particles

Ok muppet moment & I’ll leave the above as it may help the other muppets if a brain fade like mine occurred

It’s simple to find out I’ll just go shoot some critters catch a few pills & weigh them
Yep that simple & will tell me pretty quickly what’s going on

Man I just stocked up on 22lr 😱but as koda said I wish another option existed as I’ve not been happy with the ones I’ve tested
but then again Winchester ruined the best 22lr of all time when it went to the states & I’ve not found a 22 bullet that’s close since

So Steve pull your finger out & get into the 22lr market & it’ll give you something to do while your twiddling your thumbs 😜

If anyone wants to know on the 22 pills I’ll put the info up when I get it although it could take a while 🤣
Cheers
 
Steve Davis said:
I find it interesting that this same thread on lrh has not received a single comment. I was kinda prepared for push back but basically nothing.
Click to expand...
Gday Steve
On lrh I can only imagine that it’s the hammer lovers shouting your praise lol yes I’m being sarcastic

I was once a sceptic of lead when it was first introduced as a cause for waterfowl problems & deaths
Today I have waded through enough to say I was wrong & do my part to help create the safety of those creatures where I can

It’s a bit like our electricity poles they killed heaps of birds now today we have measures / procedures put in place that drastically reduce the deaths now cars also hit these birds especially owls @ night but some things have also been done to lesson that risk but still a long way to go
Our wind farms here killed a lot to begin with but also measures put in place that also lessons the deaths now & shooting with lead in critters that are digested by birds or bottom feeders of aquatic plants like swans is another that has been widely discussed & debated but when you see swans that can’t lift there heads from lead poisoning or function ( yes I’ve seen actual samples taken & come back positive) it stares you in the face that stop putting you head in the sand or should say some should pull it out their Ar$- as if we can help lesson the risk in the way of wind farms- electricity poles/wires shooting etc that those little % add up & you’ve got a viable population for generations to have the privilege to see & we should be proud of we are moving in a direction to help this occur
Also just like our fish the flathead which has had the bag limit dropped & size increased we needed to act or loose it forever yet man the outcry from some is pitiful

It also reminds me of when we put our tree plantations in & along the lines of the 24D
We were told by the timber company they would be using atrazine & trizine for which we had already heard whispers of what it potentially was doing to people if it entered the water system yet we were told that was a 100% safe & not to worry it’s a smokescreen by the green movement

Well we stood firm & did not allow them to apply ( yes other chemicals were used but not those )
For which 2 or 3 years later one was banned due to what it had found to have increased the risk & we had a cancer cluster in our municipality that no one wanted to address but when you look @ who got it & where they lived it was a pattern that could be traced back to the 1990’s but today is mainly forgotten


Yes it’s close to my heart I get that & call me what anyone likes but I for one am not afraid to say I was once to close to seeing what was taking place & blind @ seeing what was really going on so I’m sure some just can’t see because they are worried that they will not be able to hunt like they use too for which just look @ your tag system no you can’t & you can’t hunt like you use to anyway as just the amount of people alone has increased so quotas need to be bought in to help balance the population
Then you get the radicals that want to shut everything up & protect everything that just plain dosent work but if your not part of the voice don’t come bitching when it’s all lost so I say good on you Steve for having the balls to stand up & put your foot forward as that’s a great step for us hunters to get credibility not crucified by the rules makers


I’ve got some great tree hugging aquanauts now that hated hunting with a passion yet through careful consideration and showing they now understand how important hunting is to the echo system as we need balance & my hunting property now has a special permit that allows us to control as we see fit & just like the covenant that part of that property has on it , we need to understand that sometimes things need to change for a more balanced outcome to exsist where if we don’t we will have nothing tomorrow & im not a rule maker but we can make a difference if we approach it differently

Jm2cw
Cheers
 
Steve Davis said:
I find it interesting that this same thread on lrh has not received a single comment. I was kinda prepared for push back but basically nothing.
Click to expand...
Steve,
I posted the documtary on www.24campfire.com and ask if it was propaganda or legit to get some response. Well, mostly I wanted to get Hammer Bullets there. Anyway, most called propaganda. Nevertheless, I was tickled that people could see the Hammer Bullets. My name on 24 hour is Ringman.

I'm not a salesman or anything, but I do appreciate Hammer Bullets being there and taking care of what I need.
 
RichCoyle said:
Steve,
I posted the documtary on www.24campfire.com and ask if it was propaganda or legit to get some response. Well, mostly I wanted to get Hammer Bullets there. Anyway, most called propaganda. Nevertheless, I was tickled that people could see the Hammer Bullets. My name on 24 hour is Ringman.

I'm not a salesman or anything, but I do appreciate Hammer Bullets being there and taking care of what I need.
Click to expand...
The sight is www.24hourcampfire.com. Sorry for the inconvenience.
 
I've been using mono's for over 20 years. Killed a deer last season with a ELD X with my new 300 PRC. Found pieces of the jacket. That shot confirmed why I prefer mono's to lead core. The meat looks so much cleaner with mono's. This coming season I'm happy to say, it'll be mono's and first time Hammer shooter. Can't wait to try them out.
 
Well, I spent 40+ years in the environmental field, retired as Dir EHS for a global company. I commented on @ButterBean thread that I believe in and has been company position. Speak with data. Even if the data is not what you want to hear or even if it makes you uncomfortable. Lead in the environment is pervasive and if attributed to lead bullets, then we as sportsmen need to be the stewards that we have been and move forward with viable solutions. I prefer to "lead" versus follow. Sorry, couldn't resist.
 
My use of Hammer's is because they are simply the best bullet I've found.

I won't say which side of the argument it best supports (LMAO), but as a kid I carried pellets in my mouth, split shot, cast my share of lead bullets.

@ButterBean definitely shook the bushes.

On the fence about where it fits myself, proportionately not factually. We have bunches of eagles etc. they're about the only ones catching fish (or beating up ospreys for their catch) in some places.

I remember the Spotted Owl "decline" wasn't loss of habitat it was predation by larger birds.

Changes in both land management, and lack of predator control looms large in the sage grouse becoming "endangered".
 
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