Full bore diameter muzzleloader bullets?

BigGame

BigGame

Active member
Anywhere on the Hammer horizen?

I realize there are some Pittman Hammer muzzleloader bullets on the website, but those are somewhat specialty bullets that require both sabots and faster than common twist. I'd love to see some full bore .50 call bullets that work in common muzzleloaders. In my mind they'd be a lot like a Jack Hammer design.

The trick is needing micro-size variations to fit different barrels (.500, .501, .502, .503...). My two muzzleloaders both use .502 with 1:28 twist and I'd be happy to test some prototypes - maybe in the 250 grain neighborhood? Just sayin'.

Thanks
 
I think part of the reason this hasn’t been pursued a lot is that with the common .50 cals and even .45 that are only rated for black powder and subs is that there is always going to be a speed limit on the velocity. Lead generally works excellent within that speed limit, and so while it would be fun to experiment most shooters would end going back to more traditional projectiles for the more traditional inlines if I can coin that term.

Now smokeless guns and it’s a whole different ball game as they are way more capable of reaching velocity where the hammer advantage really shines.

That’s my way of thinking anyhow.
 
I understand your point about velocity for effective performance for Hammer Hunters, Shock Hammers and the like. But the Jack Hammer design is intended for handguns and I think would be effective in a muzzleloader application. That or an exaggerated meplat to operate at lower velocities.

I think it’s worth testing, if we had some muzzleloaders on this forum with the willingness to experiment with some prototypes (hint, hint).
 
I have no doubt in my mind that the jack hammers will be effective, and would gladly try some. The only question is will there be a big enough difference from lead to get a bunch of folks to switch and run the hammers? That’s why it’s down on the priority list is all I’m saying.

Then again they do have a 10 mm and I think a .44 jack hammer already made so you could get sabots to match and try ‘em. I shoot a .50 tc omega and I generally don’t load up real hot so the .44’s likely won’t be the ticket, .45’s will be much more likely to get shooting well. I switched away from Barnes in the muzzleloader because of price and honestly can’t see myself going to hammers for black powder, smokeless on the other hand I definitely would, as my main interest with smokeless involves smaller diameter and full form sizing. For those pursuits hammer already makes lots of suitable pills!
Let us know if you try some!
 
The .452 Shock Hammer (221 gr) needs 1:30 min twist designed for 450BM. So throw it in TC yellow sabot, will it stabilize in appropriate twist MZ? I cannot recall my older Encore twist if 1:30? 1:24? 1:36? Guess I will pull barrel out of case and see. Has my curiosity with BH209. The PDR bands effect pretty much negated prob by sabot.
 
Muddyboots said:
The .452 Shock Hammer (221 gr) needs 1:30 min twist designed for 450BM. So throw it in TC yellow sabot, will it stabilize in appropriate twist MZ? I cannot recall my older Encore twist if 1:30? 1:24? 1:36? Guess I will pull barrel out of case and see. Has my curiosity with BH209. The PDR bands effect pretty much negated prob by sabot.
Click to expand...
My biggest question with that pill is how slow can it go and reliably shed the petals? BH209 might squeeze enough velocity out for this to be a step up. I would hazard a guess that your encore measures right around 1:28…
 
BigGame said:
I like the thinking, but unfortunately using a sabot doesn’t work for me in Oregon. Regs for muzzleloader hunts require full bore diameter bullets.
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Do you have any bore diameter regs?
With hammers a full bore diameter Bullet is going to mean full form sizing… unless hammer would design some type of hollow based Bullet (think minie) so that it would expand in the bore to engage the rifling and make them in a few sizes for each bore diameter.
 
Carsyn.22 said:
My biggest question with that pill is how slow can it go and reliably shed the petals? BH209 might squeeze enough velocity out for this to be a step up. I would hazard a guess that your encore measures right around 1:28…
Click to expand...
Yes 1:28, I really not sure how fast but prob in 2100-2200 neighborhood with BH209. Maybe bit more.

"With the 4mm hollow point expansion is rapid and retained weight is constant at high or low vel impacts."

Maybe @Steve Davis can provide general min velocity for this 450BM bullet.
 
Carsyn.22 said:
Do you have any bore diameter regs?
With hammers a full bore diameter Bullet is going to mean full form sizing… unless hammer would design some type of hollow based Bullet (think minie) so that it would expand in the bore to engage the rifling and make them in a few sizes for each bore diameter.
Click to expand...
Oregon requires a minimum of .40 caliber for deer/pronghorn/lion/bear and .50 for elk/sheep/goat. Bullets must be full bore diameter (round ball with a patch is ok). No sabots or "bullets with plastic or synthetic parts." No centerfire primers (209), so no BH209. No scopes. The rules requiring full bore diameter bullets apply in Idaho, and Colorado as well (those states don't allow sabots but do allow belted).
 
I see Montana requires full bore diameter also (no sabots). Montana and Idaho do require lead only, so a muzzleloader Jack Hammer in a full bore diameter would currently be valid in Oregon and Colorado (many other states would also allow the option to use them, but not due to requirements).
 
BigGame said:
Anywhere on the Hammer horizen?

I realize there are some Pittman Hammer muzzleloader bullets on the website, but those are somewhat specialty bullets that require both sabots and faster than common twist. I'd love to see some full bore .50 call bullets that work in common muzzleloaders. In my mind they'd be a lot like a Jack Hammer design.

The trick is needing micro-size variations to fit different barrels (.500, .501, .502, .503...). My two muzzleloaders both use .502 with 1:28 twist and I'd be happy to test some prototypes - maybe in the 250 grain neighborhood? Just sayin'.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I have a Lyman .54 1:48 and it hurls PRB just fine. However, I was always searching for a conical that would shoot better than minute of pie plate. Buffalo ball-ets were nice, then discontinued in .54. I finally settled on casting my own (300gr Lee R.E.A.L) and have been real happy with the results. I now prefer to practice with REALs over PRB because of less fouling. I load ‘em 110 ffg with bullet over wad and a musket cap nipple.
 
I’d love to see some ML projectiles as well. Both intended for sabots and full bore. I think now that there is a tip design that is working, that would be a huge bonus in an ML application where every single shred of BC you can get makes a notable difference in maximum range.
 
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