HH vs HHT bloodshot

S

Sprint1006

Active member
Hi I was wondering if anyone is seeing any difference with the HH and the HHT with bloodshot meat? I have been running the HH and have been impressed with how little bloodshot meat I get. Have a buddy ready to switch to hammer bullets and he is trying to decide which line to use. I have heard nothing but amazing things about the new HHT line but was wondering since they seem to open a bit faster if they are causing more bloodshot meat than the HH line?
 
Gday @Sprint1006
What critters & velocity impacts are you looking @ as it isn’t bloodshot meat that the problem occurs with the hht line it’s you’ll have no meat left on a shoulder as it will disappear

Be careful if one has smaller deer & pushes the hyper velocity or if one wants a cape for mounting the head @ hyper velocity’s

Example I’m thinking one needs to tune ones bullet weight to speed of 3400 ish to stay @ most impacts being more tolerable
Eg as long as your twist will accommodate the pill most will be better going to is the next weight size pill up

4k impact yes I’m going to cut a deer in half well it won’t be far from it
Wallaby it is going to be stupid but I like stupid on those critters 🤣😜



Cheers
 
Your shot placement will also determine the amount of damage. Quartering away shot, exiting the shoulder on a smaller deer at hyper velocity would likely cause cape/hide damage. Based off of Farleg pics.

HHTs on Missouri deer at less than 3000 impacts show damage to the offside rib meat, in a concentrated area, but the hide absorbs the energy and holds up fine. I don’t know about velocity above 3400. @gltaylor should be showing us some results soon of light skinned deer at excessive velocity.

Kneedeep
 
Back to the difference between pills and bloodshot meat. To me a hammer that banana peels its petals off will show less bloodshot meat. A hammer that has less peel and more pop shows more bloodshot meat. The HHTs have a pop but is long and concentrated. Though Farleg is seeing it go wide and long at higher velocity.

For comparison a lead core bullet that mushrooms quickly directs a lot of energy outward on impact causing a lot of bloodshot meat.

Kneedeep
 
I have three kills with a 300wsm pushing the 168 grain HHT. Muzzle velocity is 3100 fps and all three kills have been 100 yards or less (100 whitetail buck, 70 Medium sized bear, 50 Small bear) The bear had very little blood shot meat and both were hit almost perfect broadside. The buck was slightly quartering away and had more damage than any of the HH kills I have under my belt. With that said, the damage was to the ribs and blood was mostly contained to the layers of fat / tissue that separate meat layers. The entrance had the most damage with exit only having a wound the twice the diameter of the bullet (approx.). The front shoulder, where the shank went directly through, had very little blood shot meet.

If I had to answer your question.....I would say the HH line of bullets have less damage than that of the HHT. With that being said, my sample size with HHT is limited. I love the HHT and can't wait to test it on more bear next year. Both lines have killed animals well....all one shot kills.

Look under the HHT terminal performance thread and you will see pics of the buck I shot this year.
 
Farleg said:
Gday @Sprint1006
What critters & velocity impacts are you looking @ as it isn’t bloodshot meat that the problem occurs with the hht line it’s you’ll have no meat left on a shoulder as it will disappear

Be careful if one has smaller deer & pushes the hyper velocity or if one wants a cape for mounting the head @ hyper velocity’s

Example I’m thinking one needs to tune ones bullet weight to speed of 3400 ish to stay @ most impacts being more tolerable
Eg as long as your twist will accommodate the pill most will be better going to is the next weight size pill up

4k impact yes I’m going to cut a deer in half well it won’t be far from it
Wallaby it is going to be stupid but I like stupid on those critters 🤣😜



Cheers
Click to expand...
Small sample size, but I've shot 4 deer with the .257 90gr AH at a little over 3611 fps muzzle velocity, and 1 deer with the .264 85gr HH @ 3402 fps muzzle velocity. In all cases, dead deer quickly with next to zero bloodshot meat and certainly nothing like no meat on a shoulder...having disappeared.

So....deer to 500 yards with .277. I want them dead, but minimizing meat loss:

116gr AH @ 3700 fps
-or-
122 HHT @ 3400 fps

At 500 yards, the AH is still 50 fps faster than the HHT. Do I use the HHT, sacrifice meat, and have quicker/more certain kills.....or is the AH just as deadly/terminally efficient but with less meat loss?
 
Sample size is small from my experience this year, as I took half my deer to a processor to save time.
The .284/120HH deer was a quartering to impact at 2950-3000 fps. Front shoulder was pretty well damaged, but I chalked that up to shot placement as knee deep said. I wouldn’t expect that on a broadside shot.
Two deer with 132HHT out of same rifle had roughly same impact speed as 120HH. Saw bruising around the entry and exit, but hardly any meat loss.
So I don’t think you can go wrong with either.
 
Gday @choprzrul

In your case

If we are talking 500 yard impact the hht is superior terminally taking everything into account

Look where the 2 basically cross the around 2700 ish impacts & down & this is where the hht line shines on a more consistent base

Meat loss minimal with either ( broadly speaking ) regardless of the shot placement

Now moving impacts up of around
2700 to I don’t know @ this stage but taking a guess of 3000/3300 you are getting more damage from the hht but overal if one is more reserved on placement eg in crease vrs the shoulder bone you also won’t see much difference in the crease on meat loss difference
But for me personally I don’t think one is worth worrying about as maybe 1/2 pound difference of meat loss but this meat could also go to burger as no bloodshot in it on most cases

Now get to that 3400/3500 plus impact range & now we need to be careful regardless of pill style but the hht more so & hence my statement “I will cut a deer in half “ & 4k I will nearly but this is 30 cal & the frontal diameter cause is showing up here so maybe the 6.5 or 25 cals @ those impacts are a safer bet
But killing ability the 30 cal is resigning supreme in the cases I put up

Now please the following is one to understand this is a extreme & a broadside would have been preferred but I needed this poor genetic animal out of the equation & I just need them gone so any angle is taken as basically this animal travels 5 or less yards your shot opportunity isn’t possible or a more compromised angle

GL look away now please 😜
This is around a 3500 impact with the 168 hht ( I can’t attach so hopefully it shows up after I press post )
IMG-20231203-WA0003.jpg

Angle of shot only couple of petals got into chest cavity & a rib penertrated one lobe of lung

More to come in description on another thread as I need to put this up there but these angles are not a good option with mushroom monos regardless of impact & a frangible on the occasions I’ve had these angles with them @ these velocities are a better option than the mushroom mono but I’m not convinced yet what is best but from this one shot the hammer has proven it’s worth with impressive results
9 yard impact to tip ( these are usually longer on impact to tip & many animals are recovered with use of dogs to find )
So I’m a happy camper got rid of a crap deer & it will eat well


Cheers
 
@Farleg or any other Hammerhead with HHT experience.......any changed thoughts on twist rate requirement/goals with the HHT line? SF of 1.5 had been the min with some folks shooting for 2.0 for a little insurance with the HH. Same with HHT?

Wasn't sure which thread to ask this question in but this one seemed as good as any.
 
Farleg said:
Gday @choprzrul

In your case

If we are talking 500 yard impact the hht is superior terminally taking everything into account

Look where the 2 basically cross the around 2700 ish impacts & down & this is where the hht line shines on a more consistent base

Meat loss minimal with either ( broadly speaking ) regardless of the shot placement

Now moving impacts up of around
2700 to I don’t know @ this stage but taking a guess of 3000/3300 you are getting more damage from the hht but overal if one is more reserved on placement eg in crease vrs the shoulder bone you also won’t see much difference in the crease on meat loss difference
But for me personally I don’t think one is worth worrying about as maybe 1/2 pound difference of meat loss but this meat could also go to burger as no bloodshot in it on most cases

Now get to that 3400/3500 plus impact range & now we need to be careful regardless of pill style but the hht more so & hence my statement “I will cut a deer in half “ & 4k I will nearly but this is 30 cal & the frontal diameter cause is showing up here so maybe the 6.5 or 25 cals @ those impacts are a safer bet
But killing ability the 30 cal is resigning supreme in the cases I put up

Now please the following is one to understand this is a extreme & a broadside would have been preferred but I needed this poor genetic animal out of the equation & I just need them gone so any angle is taken as basically this animal travels 5 or less yards your shot opportunity isn’t possible or a more compromised angle

GL look away now please 😜
This is around a 3500 impact with the 168 hht ( I can’t attach so hopefully it shows up after I press post )
View attachment 4398

Angle of shot only couple of petals got into chest cavity & a rib penertrated one lobe of lung

More to come in description on another thread as I need to put this up there but these angles are not a good option with mushroom monos regardless of impact & a frangible on the occasions I’ve had these angles with them @ these velocities are a better option than the mushroom mono but I’m not convinced yet what is best but from this one shot the hammer has proven it’s worth with impressive results
9 yard impact to tip ( these are usually longer on impact to tip & many animals are recovered with use of dogs to find )
So I’m a happy camper got rid of a crap deer & it will eat well


Cheers
Click to expand...
Dang it Farleg!
That's as bad as my deer with the 124 at stoopid speed! Uungh.
 
Bojo34 said:
@Farleg or any other Hammerhead with HHT experience.......any changed thoughts on twist rate requirement/goals with the HHT line? SF of 1.5 had been the min with some folks shooting for 2.0 for a little insurance with the HH. Same with HHT?

Wasn't sure which thread to ask this question in but this one seemed as good as any.
Click to expand...

Gday bojo
I’m in a bit of a rush so no proof read on the following so get your interpreter ready 😇

Great question & wish it was as simple as yes or no

We need to break that down in a couple parts to get a better outcome as a blanket statement will get one in trouble I think

First I will say yes a 1.5 can be used with the hht if we look @ the balanced pills

The pattern that seems to be showing is that until a pill becomes to long ( calibre to length ratio ) it’s not necessary to have a greater sf
This comes about from the penertration part of the triangles leg ( it doesn’t hurt I think but only when other things are out of balance we see the real gains )

I tried the sf of down to 1.3 as per discussion on the bison ballistic discussion we had on the old forum as those thoughts haven’t left me yet & im seeing some companies even suggesting that to clients which when I test what they recommend I get a pill that goes from ugly to straight for so long then turns start which is ok some of the time but not when it’s needed so a 1.5 for those companies is where it starts to straighten this out & by 1.7 to 1.9 this is nearly fixing it if the meplat is not compromised on those pills as then 2& over is definitely recommended

Now this was ultimately like the hh/ah lines so no real surprises there but the one I saw snippets of was in another shedding mono of not quite needing the sf & still needs above 1.7 to stay straight but once again the transition zone & meplat shape has a huge influence on what it will do & sf is only a Band-Aid to help not fix as other tweaks will give a better outcome easier

Now the hht is one that on the balanced pills we can use that 1.5 as a good indicator of very consistent results

Now the issues come about when we get unbalanced & this case to long of a pill &like the other brands I bought up as once you increase to 2 plus just like the hh&ah lines that in the long pills watch reliability improve if your @1.5 watch erratic results start

So to me I’m a no on the long pills in the hht line just as it was with the hh&ah line & many other brands definitely concern for me @1.5 on them & that 1.7 would be my bare minimum but 2 I’d like if I was to use

Now extremely high sf also has shown no hindrance to petals getting flung out of the shanks path to quickly & not get vacuumed along & maybe the 154 hht I can do it 🤷‍♂️but the 138 will give me the best chance in 30 cal but the 6.5 80hht I spun that to some pretty high sf numbers with good results but I’ve got no other 6.5 to compare that to in a slower twist for comparison so I take that with a grain of salt @ present
The 375 I have a good selection of twists available to confirm a few theories but just health has stopped me pulling the trigger on that so far but it will come 🤞

Really it doesn’t hurt us to have extra sf with any mono & long pills @ long range I think there is a lot to be gained on the terminal part but more still needs exploring to work out that part


But for now the midweight pills seem pretty darn good with a 1.5 sf & lightweight 🤷‍♂️as I’ve not shot them that low
Got to run sorry
Hope that’s clear
Cheers
 
Got it. Thanks @Farleg as always. At some point hopefully the group will pin down a definition/ratio for "too Long" so some rough guideline for when to jump from 1.5 to 2.0 for insurance but for now think I understand "midweights" and "balanced" well enough to be safe. Cheers gets some rest!
 
Farleg said:
Gday @choprzrul

In your case

If we are talking 500 yard impact the hht is superior terminally taking everything into account

Look where the 2 basically cross the around 2700 ish impacts & down & this is where the hht line shines on a more consistent base

Meat loss minimal with either ( broadly speaking ) regardless of the shot placement

Now moving impacts up of around
2700 to I don’t know @ this stage but taking a guess of 3000/3300 you are getting more damage from the hht but overal if one is more reserved on placement eg in crease vrs the shoulder bone you also won’t see much difference in the crease on meat loss difference
But for me personally I don’t think one is worth worrying about as maybe 1/2 pound difference of meat loss but this meat could also go to burger as no bloodshot in it on most cases

Now get to that 3400/3500 plus impact range & now we need to be careful regardless of pill style but the hht more so & hence my statement “I will cut a deer in half “ & 4k I will nearly but this is 30 cal & the frontal diameter cause is showing up here so maybe the 6.5 or 25 cals @ those impacts are a safer bet
But killing ability the 30 cal is resigning supreme in the cases I put up

Now please the following is one to understand this is a extreme & a broadside would have been preferred but I needed this poor genetic animal out of the equation & I just need them gone so any angle is taken as basically this animal travels 5 or less yards your shot opportunity isn’t possible or a more compromised angle

GL look away now please 😜
This is around a 3500 impact with the 168 hht ( I can’t attach so hopefully it shows up after I press post )
View attachment 4398

Angle of shot only couple of petals got into chest cavity & a rib penertrated one lobe of lung

More to come in description on another thread as I need to put this up there but these angles are not a good option with mushroom monos regardless of impact & a frangible on the occasions I’ve had these angles with them @ these velocities are a better option than the mushroom mono but I’m not convinced yet what is best but from this one shot the hammer has proven it’s worth with impressive results
9 yard impact to tip ( these are usually longer on impact to tip & many animals are recovered with use of dogs to find )
So I’m a happy camper got rid of a crap deer & it will eat well


Cheers
Click to expand...
Only one question my friend! How did this wound not smoke?
 
HARPERC said:
Only one question my friend! How did this wound not smoke?
Click to expand...
Gday Carl
That’s one that would be great to know on why not

I think it’s probably from the wound not getting contained within the body enough as the bubble popped out the shoulder sideways , it let the pressure out before it could create enough pressure to get smoke

I haven’t shot any pademelon wallaby centre mass with that pill of where the smoking was seen on them so I’ll put that in the memory bank & see if I can get them to smoke ( a buck pademelon seems the most consistent critter to get the smoking & I think that’s to do with their hide 🤷‍♂️ )

cheers
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. I think for the smaller blacktails out here I’m gonna stick with the hammer hunters that have performed amazing for me and so are my buddies. They are both gonna try the 110 grain hammer hunters in their 270 wsm’s.
 
Sprint1006 said:
Thanks everyone for the replies. I think for the smaller blacktails out here I’m gonna stick with the hammer hunters that have performed amazing for me and so are my buddies. They are both gonna try the 110 grain hammer hunters in their 270 wsm’s.
Click to expand...
A couple of weeks ago I did load development for my XBolt 270 WSM using 122gr HHT. Ended up with a 3 shot group measuring 0.4" after a grand total of 11 shots fired that day.

Tell your buddies to be mindful of COAL in their rifles.
 
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