My furthest deer kill!

unclecroc

unclecroc

Active member
I know it may not be “long range” to some but it’s a long shot to me. I was going to try the 90 hht on a couple more deer but I didn’t have time to plug a few more off and I still had a few 88s left. Now I may just stick with the 88.
I shot a 1.5 year old doe tonight at 465 yards with my 6mm creedmoor and the 88 hammer hunter. Muzzle velocity is 3340 fps so that puts impact at 2240fps estimated. I hit her in the middle of the ribs and got both lungs. She ran 70 yards before piling up but she left a good blood trail. Entry hole is caliber size and exit is the size of a golf ball, no part of the bullet was recovered. A video of the hunt will be up in a few weeks. IMG_2161.jpegIMG_2164.jpegIMG_2162.jpegIMG_2165.jpegIMG_2166.jpegIMG_2167.jpeg
 
Gday unclecroc
Congrats & nice trigger work
I look forward to the video

I’ll go out on a limb here
Your doe won’t have showed a lot of visual hurt @ that impact as your hh line is no where near as effective as the hht @ these velocity impacts

watch the delay in the transition zone as demonstrated in your lung picture

The hht covers these shots extremely well & you have a 2 stage petal shedding that for all intensive purposes eliminates the longer transition zone the hh line shows

Now the hh line is good I’ll not doubt that & those who want to keep using by all means go for it but for those who want a more consistent pill I’ll continue to push the hht
Especially these impacts

Sorry to harp on & whatever you choose is upto you & im cool with that
Cheers
 
Farleg said:
Gday unclecroc
Congrats & nice trigger work
I look forward to the video

I’ll go out on a limb here
Your doe won’t have showed a lot of visual hurt @ that impact as your hh line is no where near as effective as the hht @ these velocity impacts

watch the delay in the transition zone as demonstrated in your lung picture

The hht covers these shots extremely well & you have a 2 stage petal shedding that for all intensive purposes eliminates the longer transition zone the hh line shows

Now the hh line is good I’ll not doubt that & those who want to keep using by all means go for it but for those who want a more consistent pill I’ll continue to push the hht
Especially these impacts

Sorry to harp on & whatever you choose is upto you & im cool with that
Cheers
Click to expand...
I am in this pickle right now. I have a great load for both the 88 hammer hunter and 90 hht. And they both work so well I can’t decide which I want to go with. I guess this is a good problem to have.
I have seen both entrance holes larger and I’ve also seen exit holes larger. I guess this comes back to what you said about the hht being more consistent in expansion. I have never been able to come up with a good reason why the variance.
I also noticed that on impacts below 2500 The petals have a greater chance of exiting very close to the shank on hh.
On the shot she definitely had a death run I haven’t shot enough with the hht to say if they react differently at impact or not.
 
Gday unclecroc
Yes a great pickle 😍

unclecroc said:
I am in this pickle right now. I have a great load for both the 88 hammer hunter and 90 hht. And they both work so well I can’t decide which I want to go with. I guess this is a good problem to have.
I have seen both entrance holes larger and I’ve also seen exit holes larger. I guess this comes back to what you said about the hht being more consistent in expansion. I have never been able to come up with a good reason why the variance.
I also noticed that on impacts below 2500 The petals have a greater chance of exiting very close to the shank on hh.
On the shot she definitely had a death run I haven’t shot enough with the hht to say if they react differently at impact or not.
Click to expand...

Your going well & good observation 👍

Let’s forget for a moment the style of pill & just go to what kills more consistently

Velocity is pretty self explanatory but it’s also where we have tapering off & that is high & low depending on the pill’s characteristics & this is where we start to understand where a balanced pill covers a wider velocity window

Shapecharge is the next one
If a pill opens to quick we get for better words the energy directed outwards not in the animal if it’s to concentrated like a fmj the shape charge is directed to narrow & kills on average are longer from impact to tip & visually you will see less reaction to the impact than the first scenario & a fine line exists to get this right but when it does you have a very well balanced pill the even harder part is to get that across various resistances & impacts yes multiple situations playing out & why we need to observe multiple kills not one off or a few dosent even give enough for reliable data but overtime you see it & together we can help ea other

Moving back to your pickle & yep your in a great one as the following will show

Let’s stay with the broadside like your shot
& looks to me if that pill has a long transition zone @ that velocity impact yet increase the velocity & even without more resistance ( kinda tongue in cheek as when you increase velocity on the same position shot you increase resistance also ) & the length of that transition zone will be shortened up
So for the average shots you talked about that hh will give even better results than the
One you had on this doe ( to the new comers this is not saying the hh is inadequate it’s saying we can get even better results & what a lot of us strive for & that is raising the bar)

Now move that to the hht
We have the added benefit ( broadly speaking) of a 2 stage petal shedding system
& a extremely consistent transition zone regardless of the velocity or resistance

The first stage is one that dosent go very deep & usually is 4 to 5 in deep 6 in is a long way but it protects the next stage giving its coke can wound channel for a considerable distance & I don’t know about the 6mm hht yet so once again broadly speaking

So let’s take worst case & 4 in on first stage & your onside lung has way more damage than with the hh pill & then the 2nd stage kicks in & a coke can in the 2nd lung lobe & for everything going the same we will say both 2nd lobes have the same damage
( actual will tell the truth on the difference between these 2 pills & this is theory based @ present )

So on that info above it’s why the hht kills more consistently as has proven this time after time
Once again not saying the hh line dosent work I’m saying the hht will give more consistency especially once other factors are taken into account

For your pickle situation keep shooting what pleases you the most & looking forward to the video & the ones to come
( hint I’d like more please 😇 )

Hope it all makes sense & others may have different opinions/ experiences for own reasons & other information which is why this place is pretty awesome as we can disagree but still get on & show both sides of the fence

Cheers
 
Farleg said:
Gday unclecroc
Yes a great pickle 😍



Your going well & good observation 👍

Let’s forget for a moment the style of pill & just go to what kills more consistently

Velocity is pretty self explanatory but it’s also where we have tapering off & that is high & low depending on the pill’s characteristics & this is where we start to understand where a balanced pill covers a wider velocity window

Shapecharge is the next one
If a pill opens to quick we get for better words the energy directed outwards not in the animal if it’s to concentrated like a fmj the shape charge is directed to narrow & kills on average are longer from impact to tip & visually you will see less reaction to the impact than the first scenario & a fine line exists to get this right but when it does you have a very well balanced pill the even harder part is to get that across various resistances & impacts yes multiple situations playing out & why we need to observe multiple kills not one off or a few dosent even give enough for reliable data but overtime you see it & together we can help ea other

Moving back to your pickle & yep your in a great one as the following will show

Let’s stay with the broadside like your shot
& looks to me if that pill has a long transition zone @ that velocity impact yet increase the velocity & even without more resistance ( kinda tongue in cheek as when you increase velocity on the same position shot you increase resistance also ) & the length of that transition zone will be shortened up
So for the average shots you talked about that hh will give even better results than the
One you had on this doe ( to the new comers this is not saying the hh is inadequate it’s saying we can get even better results & what a lot of us strive for & that is raising the bar)

Now move that to the hht
We have the added benefit ( broadly speaking) of a 2 stage petal shedding system
& a extremely consistent transition zone regardless of the velocity or resistance

The first stage is one that dosent go very deep & usually is 4 to 5 in deep 6 in is a long way but it protects the next stage giving its coke can wound channel for a considerable distance & I don’t know about the 6mm hht yet so once again broadly speaking

So let’s take worst case & 4 in on first stage & your onside lung has way more damage than with the hh pill & then the 2nd stage kicks in & a coke can in the 2nd lung lobe & for everything going the same we will say both 2nd lobes have the same damage
( actual will tell the truth on the difference between these 2 pills & this is theory based @ present )

So on that info above it’s why the hht kills more consistently as has proven this time after time
Once again not saying the hh line dosent work I’m saying the hht will give more consistency especially once other factors are taken into account

For your pickle situation keep shooting what pleases you the most & looking forward to the video & the ones to come
( hint I’d like more please 😇 )

Hope it all makes sense & others may have different opinions/ experiences for own reasons & other information which is why this place is pretty awesome as we can disagree but still get on & show both sides of the fence

Cheers
Click to expand...
Thanks for the detailed write up farleg. Your knowledge and willingness to share and explain are greatly appreciated.
I probably should shoot a few more with the hht at closer range and in the lungs like I have with the hh to get a better comparison.

However I have had experience with the 88hh at close range (40 yards) and long(465 yards) and I have been looking at the two in comparison and the transition zone like you said is much shorter in the close impact with similar shot placement. The entry hole is a large hole with shank and petals exiting further apart from one another.
Entrance
IMG_2003.jpeg
Exit
IMG_2001.jpeg
This deer also ran notably less distance than the one shot at further distance 30 yards vs 70. Interesting stuff for sure. Thanks for getting my wheels turning!
On a side note there’s a lot more videos coming down the pike!
 
unclecroc said:
Thanks for the detailed write up farleg. Your knowledge and willingness to share and explain are greatly appreciated.
I probably should shoot a few more with the hht at closer range and in the lungs like I have with the hh to get a better comparison.

However I have had experience with the 88hh at close range (40 yards) and long(465 yards) and I have been looking at the two in comparison and the transition zone like you said is much shorter in the close impact with similar shot placement. The entry hole is a large hole with shank and petals exiting further apart from one another.
Entrance
View attachment 5938
Exit
View attachment 5939
This deer also ran notably less distance than the one shot at further distance 30 yards vs 70. Interesting stuff for sure. Thanks for getting my wheels turning!
On a side note there’s a lot more videos coming down the pike!
Click to expand...

Great pictures & observations & I really like your willingness to examine & observations definitely gets those wheels turning

What I really like & applaud is getting the data on more of the 88hh first
The 90hht can wait imo as once you become familiar with the baseline of what the 88 hh does across the various resistances you will have very good knowledge on what it’s doing & where

Then the hht becomes easy & just replicate it over & over

Now don’t worry if you get a long run like the one you had compared to a shorter it’s working through that & understanding why with the basics that were previously relayed & the picture becomes clearer over time

Knowing hammers cover a wide variety of bases gives a lot of confidence

Enough of my dribble


Cheers
 
Farleg said:
Great pictures & observations & I really like your willingness to examine & observations definitely gets those wheels turning

What I really like & applaud is getting the data on more of the 88hh first
The 90hht can wait imo as once you become familiar with the baseline of what the 88 hh does across the various resistances you will have very good knowledge on what it’s doing & where

Then the hht becomes easy & just replicate it over & over

Now don’t worry if you get a long run like the one you had compared to a shorter it’s working through that & understanding why with the basics that were previously relayed & the picture becomes clearer over time

Knowing hammers cover a wide variety of bases gives a lot of confidence

Enough of my dribble


Cheers
Click to expand...
I’ve been nerding out on bullets and terminal performance for a few years now. I enjoy learning as much as I can on the subject.
I shot a doe back in regular rifle season with the 88 at 200 yards. I hit her in the back half of the ribs and I had a caliber size entry and a dime sized exit with petals dispersed a few inches away. This animal dropped at the shot and nothing in the cns was disrupted but in between was typical hammer pudding. Apparently she didn’t have much reason to live is the only reason I can figure why she folded. So on a minimal resistance shot I definitely can see how the transition zone on this bullet can tend to be longer than the tipped version.
ExitIMG_2042.jpeg
Entrance
IMG_2041.jpeg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top