I picked up a new Nosler M48 patriot in 28 Nosler at my lgs several months ago at a great price along with a vx-6 leupold 3-18. The store had 1 box of ammo, 175gr LRAB. Got set up one afternoon to get it sighted in for deer season. I was getting horrible verticle stringing and some horizontal. Were talking 3" - 4" groups. Also had horrible tooling ring marks on my brass after firing. Called nosler and they were happy to help! Sent the rifle back for inspection and waited and waited. After a couple months I started calling. I couldn't get ahold of anyone or get a call back. Finally got a hold of someone and said my rifle was shipped to another location for testing, blah blah... after 5 months! it's on its way back. They stated over the phone that it shot a .7 group. Then polished the chamber, did a little stock relief in the barrel channel then test fired again and got a .6 moa group with 160gr nosler ab ammo. I was tickled! Found a box of 160's and 150 e tips. Went out and shot it and printed 3 rounds in a triangle around a 2" orange dot with the 160's. Gag. Tried the 150's about the same. Called nosler and he said it must be my scope. Put my 3-15 NF NXS on it and repeated test. Same thing. Emailed pics of groups and I've been ghosted. I got a box of adg brass, redding fl die and wilson seater. Started load development with 140 hammers and retumbo. This rifle won't shoot anything under 2" harldy. My loads out shoot the factory ammo. I'm sick of wasting components and barrel life. I've tried 168 mk's, accubonds, hornadys... etc. Nothing shoots. I need some guidance please! And sorry for long post.
Nosler let down.
- Thread starter rworm
- Start date
les
Hammer Time Executive member
I don't want to sound like a prick here, so take what I say as humble advice. Do you have a close friend who is a good shot? If you do, have him shoot the gun for groups and evaluation. What I am saying is it might be you! With the stringing you are describing I would double check your ring base mounting and the rings themselves. It might be you in that the gun just doesn't fit you well. I know when I want something to work, I can over look fit issues. I have a gun going on sale because it just doesn't fit me and I don't want to spend the money for a restocking. If that doesn't answer your questions, I would send it back to Nosler and ask for a new gun. Last but not least, I am so sorry your gun isn't shooting for you!
I know what you mean! I've got a couple friends who I would say are good shooters. But I'm the guy that friends bring their problems to. I shoot year round (2 large family farms) so I'm pretty confident in myself as a shooter. I shoot a lot of prs matches and non competitive benchrest shooting. It's not a recoil issue as I shoot a savage magnum target 338 lapua that's double the recoil of the 28. I've shot some real good groups with it. I feel like nosler got my rifle mixed up with someone else's (not likely) but I cant even get close to what they are claiming. And the fact they just gave up on me really sucks. Ill have a buddy shoot it one day this week hopefully and see what happens.
the 4 round group is with 140gr hammer hunters and retumbo.
Mountainman
Hammer Time Executive member
Dang, I can see why you're disappointed. I've only ever fired one box of factory 28 Nosler (162 eldx) and never had much luck. I have had VERY good luck with the heavier bullets (180 to 190) and N570. Also the 169 Hammers and a stout load of Ramshot LRT. All three of the rifles I loaded for are 8 twist barrels.
Will be trying some much lighter bullets one day soon
Hope you get it sorted out
Regards
Will be trying some much lighter bullets one day soon
Hope you get it sorted out
Regards
My rifle is a 9 twist so I'm limited to 160gr. At $100 for a box of shells I'm at the point of just rebarreling it. And that's another thing. I bore scoped it and it's the roughest most hideous tool mark chatter barrel I've seen. My $379 walmart 700 adl looks way better.
Koda
Hammer Time Executive member
For what the rifle cost id demand Nosler rebarrel it.
kneedeep
Hammer Time Executive member
@rworm
There’s nothing more frustrating than spending a lot more money in hopes of getting what you paid for. The fact that nosler worked on it and “improved “ it by .100” group size was no improvement. They could shoot another group (without touching a thing) and easily get +/- .100” in group size.
I too had some issues with a 28 nosler but in a christensen arms ridgeline. I was maybe asking too much from this rifle at first. It was shooting close to 2” groups at 200 yards. I tried several cup and core bullets and a couple different powders. I was also getting random results. Sometimes it would shoot better than other times. I was getting frustrated with it and left some sized and prepped brass on the bench and walked away from it for a few weeks. When I came back to load that brass, I noticed a big difference in the amount of pressure needed to seat the bullets. After doing a lot of measuring I figured out the brass was springing back over time. I annealed the brass and no longer had the spring back issue causing very light and inconsistent neck tension.
I did not note what my neck tension was in my book but can check if you’d like. It will be a few days before I could do it. I’d suggest checking yours to make sure there’s enough. I don’t crimp but am surprised it wasn’t suggested by those that do. It could help you and I’m not opposed to it if needed.
I had started loading hammers in other rifles before I started working on this rifle again. I also changed my load development by this time. Instead of picking a powder and “making” it shoot, I do 4-5 shots of each powder with a few different powders working up to pressure. It’s amazing how quickly and easily a powder would stand out as the one to use. When you can get a small group over 2-3 grains of different powder charges working up to pressure, it’s obvious you’ve found the right combination.
I haven’t messed with the absolute hammers so I don’t know if you have the correct combination of components. I loaded the 143hh with 73.0-75.5 grains IMR 4955, CCI 250, 3.403” coal. Here was the results.
I also loaded the 143hh with 81.0-82.5 grains of retumbo, CCI 250, 3.403” coal. The velocities were
3306 @ 81.0
3334 @ 81.5
3324 @ 82.0
3353 @ 82.5
This is not one ragged hole. It was raining a little this day so the paper was wet and tore out. It is way better than I thought possible with this rifle when I first started loading it.
If you’ve checked your scope rings and made sure they don’t need lapped, I’d say you could just have a picky barrel as I did and need to find the right combination. I’ve also found that holding these magnum rifles tightly to my shoulder improves my groups. But you likely know that shooting your 338
Good luck
Kneedeep
There’s nothing more frustrating than spending a lot more money in hopes of getting what you paid for. The fact that nosler worked on it and “improved “ it by .100” group size was no improvement. They could shoot another group (without touching a thing) and easily get +/- .100” in group size.
I too had some issues with a 28 nosler but in a christensen arms ridgeline. I was maybe asking too much from this rifle at first. It was shooting close to 2” groups at 200 yards. I tried several cup and core bullets and a couple different powders. I was also getting random results. Sometimes it would shoot better than other times. I was getting frustrated with it and left some sized and prepped brass on the bench and walked away from it for a few weeks. When I came back to load that brass, I noticed a big difference in the amount of pressure needed to seat the bullets. After doing a lot of measuring I figured out the brass was springing back over time. I annealed the brass and no longer had the spring back issue causing very light and inconsistent neck tension.
I did not note what my neck tension was in my book but can check if you’d like. It will be a few days before I could do it. I’d suggest checking yours to make sure there’s enough. I don’t crimp but am surprised it wasn’t suggested by those that do. It could help you and I’m not opposed to it if needed.
I had started loading hammers in other rifles before I started working on this rifle again. I also changed my load development by this time. Instead of picking a powder and “making” it shoot, I do 4-5 shots of each powder with a few different powders working up to pressure. It’s amazing how quickly and easily a powder would stand out as the one to use. When you can get a small group over 2-3 grains of different powder charges working up to pressure, it’s obvious you’ve found the right combination.
I haven’t messed with the absolute hammers so I don’t know if you have the correct combination of components. I loaded the 143hh with 73.0-75.5 grains IMR 4955, CCI 250, 3.403” coal. Here was the results.
I also loaded the 143hh with 81.0-82.5 grains of retumbo, CCI 250, 3.403” coal. The velocities were
3306 @ 81.0
3334 @ 81.5
3324 @ 82.0
3353 @ 82.5
This is not one ragged hole. It was raining a little this day so the paper was wet and tore out. It is way better than I thought possible with this rifle when I first started loading it.
If you’ve checked your scope rings and made sure they don’t need lapped, I’d say you could just have a picky barrel as I did and need to find the right combination. I’ve also found that holding these magnum rifles tightly to my shoulder improves my groups. But you likely know that shooting your 338
Good luck
Kneedeep
I have h1000, and 7828 on the shelf to try next. Just need to find some time. I followed noslers data with 86-88gr retumbo. I'll back it down closer to your charge and see what the results are. I am using new adg brass but I will pay attention to the neck tension when I size them. I'll leave 1 out and measure it every day or 2 and see if there's a change. Thanks for the tip!
Koda
Hammer Time Executive member
Whats an acceptable group size with factory ammo in a rifle in that price class?
I wouldn't spend more time on a handload, I would expect a $1500+ rifle to shoot no more than 1.25 moa with most decent factory ammo brands. Maybe Im off on that metric....?
Ive had to go thru this with two different pistols, different brands, multiple trips back to the factory on the 2 guns, both ended up with an entire replacement. Its frustrating because of the amount of time and money on ammo I spent to validate that... they didn't fix it. Frustrating.
I would expect a 1500+ rifle to not have hideous barrel chatter. They spent months with it under warranty they should know its not accurate and its barrel condition and not have sent that back to you. I would send it back to them and tell them to replace the barrel and let them know if they don't you'd sell the rifle and never buy a Nosler again.
I wouldn't spend more time on a handload, I would expect a $1500+ rifle to shoot no more than 1.25 moa with most decent factory ammo brands. Maybe Im off on that metric....?
Ive had to go thru this with two different pistols, different brands, multiple trips back to the factory on the 2 guns, both ended up with an entire replacement. Its frustrating because of the amount of time and money on ammo I spent to validate that... they didn't fix it. Frustrating.
I would expect a 1500+ rifle to not have hideous barrel chatter. They spent months with it under warranty they should know its not accurate and its barrel condition and not have sent that back to you. I would send it back to them and tell them to replace the barrel and let them know if they don't you'd sell the rifle and never buy a Nosler again.
The rifle has a 1 moa guarantee with their ammo. He told me they test all the 28 noslers with their 160gr factory ammo. Ill get a picture of the bore tomorrow and post it. I may still have a fired case with the ring tooling marks on it too before I sent it in.
Koda
Hammer Time Executive member
then if your not getting 1moa with their ammo -and- the bore has excessive rifling chatter then they should fix that.
They could argue they got 1moa but its also possible one of their technicians got 1 moa on one 3rd string of fire... and called it good.
I also think its bogus if their guarantee is only with their ammo. Thats not realistic with any rifle, and especially since they havent kept up with their own bullets since supply chain issues hit....
kneedeep
Hammer Time Executive member
@rworm and @Koda
I agree with you both and know how frustrating this is. It’s up to rworm how he spends his time on this rifle. If Nosler has already proved its Moa guarantee and sent the rifle back, my bet is it going to take a lot of time to a replacement if they would even replace it. Their lack of response tells me they’ll ignore the problem and hope it goes away. It’s definitely not the customer service I’d want.
If we borescoped every barrel before we bought them, we’d throw out a lot of barrels. I expect more but have come to realize it is what it is. Here are some examples of what I consider to be junk but they still shoot under 3/4”.
The rifling runs all the way through the throat to the lip of the chamber on one side.
Excessive tool markings in the throat.
I’ll give another example of a full custom that rifle that sat in the back of the safe because it would not shoot any factory load under an inch. I told the owner he should send it back to the builder but he said he’d owned it for a few years. It is a 6.5 CM and the barrel is as good looking as they get through a borescope. Still wouldn’t shoot any factory loads. The owner of this rifle bought a CA 6.5 CM. I worked up loads for it. It will shoot cup and core as well as hammers at 3/4” but will not do any better. I decided to check and shoot the CA’s handloads through the custom rifle because I can’t stand to see that much money sitting there of no use. The custom rifle shot the cup and core load as well as the hammer load well under 1/2”. The owner shot his best group ever with this rifle and handloads at 200 yards. Three shots in one ragged hole. This rifle went from the back of the safe to the front and has been heavily used ever since.
I’m not telling you what to do but hopefully giving some real world examples. I am curious where this rifle ends up as the type of rifle you have drives me crazy.
Kneedeep
I agree with you both and know how frustrating this is. It’s up to rworm how he spends his time on this rifle. If Nosler has already proved its Moa guarantee and sent the rifle back, my bet is it going to take a lot of time to a replacement if they would even replace it. Their lack of response tells me they’ll ignore the problem and hope it goes away. It’s definitely not the customer service I’d want.
If we borescoped every barrel before we bought them, we’d throw out a lot of barrels. I expect more but have come to realize it is what it is. Here are some examples of what I consider to be junk but they still shoot under 3/4”.
The rifling runs all the way through the throat to the lip of the chamber on one side.
Excessive tool markings in the throat.
I’ll give another example of a full custom that rifle that sat in the back of the safe because it would not shoot any factory load under an inch. I told the owner he should send it back to the builder but he said he’d owned it for a few years. It is a 6.5 CM and the barrel is as good looking as they get through a borescope. Still wouldn’t shoot any factory loads. The owner of this rifle bought a CA 6.5 CM. I worked up loads for it. It will shoot cup and core as well as hammers at 3/4” but will not do any better. I decided to check and shoot the CA’s handloads through the custom rifle because I can’t stand to see that much money sitting there of no use. The custom rifle shot the cup and core load as well as the hammer load well under 1/2”. The owner shot his best group ever with this rifle and handloads at 200 yards. Three shots in one ragged hole. This rifle went from the back of the safe to the front and has been heavily used ever since.
I’m not telling you what to do but hopefully giving some real world examples. I am curious where this rifle ends up as the type of rifle you have drives me crazy.
Kneedeep
If it were closer to 1" I would be ok with chasing the right load. But over 2" just seems more like a problem elsewhere than a load. Maybe not. I will definitely keep the progress updated. I'll give 7828 and h1000 a shot and document results to send nosler. And my barrel looks close to the last pic you posted.
Just curious,shooting off bags or bipod?
I would send video of the chamber, bore and associated documentation to:
John Nolser, President
Patrick Mundy, Vice President Sales & Marketing
I would not even bother with anyone below them. You have tried the standard route now you need to climb the management tree. I would include a very polite letter explaining your problem and frustration with customer service and results for this rifle. I would include your shooting background as well.
I would send video of the chamber, bore and associated documentation to:
John Nolser, President
Patrick Mundy, Vice President Sales & Marketing
I would not even bother with anyone below them. You have tried the standard route now you need to climb the management tree. I would include a very polite letter explaining your problem and frustration with customer service and results for this rifle. I would include your shooting background as well.
I've got a couple more loads to try, hopefully this weekend before I go that route. I'm trying a lower charge of retumbo and giving IMR 7828 SSC a try for a little faster burn rate to see if that improves anything. I've shot off a bipod with my weibad prs bag for a rear support and I've shot off bags only. I just got my new weibad front bag in a day ago so I'll be giving it a shot. After this I'll throw the towel in.
