OOPS!! More 350 Legend Experience!

BuckeyeHntr

BuckeyeHntr

Well-known member
I have been working on this setup for a minute. Have just been compiling facts to make a post.

Living in Ohio all my buddies are shooting straight walls. Hence, why I do a lot of loading for 350 Legend.

Rifle: Savage Axis II
Starting Load:
125 gr SH
27.5 gr Lil’Gun
CCI 450 SRP
Federal Brass 1.70” trim length
Bullet seated middle top of first PDR ridge. No Crimp.
OACL= 2.254”
IMG_2923.jpeg
(middle round)
RESULT:
IMG_3396.jpeg
Blown primer.
So, I have built loads for a handful of 350’s and this charge weight with LIL’Gun has always been slightly over middle of the charge range.
Mistake #1: In my attempt to save components I decided to start there.

Mistake #2: Using brass I was given with the rifle (once fired in that rifle) that I had never loaded in 350, using a primer I had not previously used.

After the blown primer I returned to my loading bench and pulled the bullets in the remainder of the pressure ladder. Weighing each charge as I went. All charges were what I expected.

So I decided to decrease the charge to 24 gr of Lil’Gun. Keeping all other components and measurements the same as the previous test.

Result:
image.jpg
Considerable cratering and gas leakage around primer.

I have used this charge weight of Lil’Gun in 350 Leg with a 172 SH and had zero pressure observed.

Perplexed, I decided to 180 out and go back to what I know.

- I sized some Winchester brass and trimmed to 1.70”.

- Primed with CCI 450 the same as before to prove the primer wasn’t the issue. (Possible it still could be when combined with Lil’Gun. But doubtful.)

- Loaded pressure Ladder with W296. (Magneto Speed)
24- 2406 fps
25- 2471 fps
26- 2520 fps
27- 2574 fps
27.5- 2617 fps
28- 2606 fps
28.5- 2642 fps
image.jpg
- All primers nicely rounded.
- Out of case capacity due to seating bullet deeper.

- Seated bullets deeper to 2.163” OACL with no crimp.image.jpg
- Pressure ladder produced a ragged hole at 50 yds.

- Built 7 loads (all I had left)
4 @ 26 gr Avg 2515 fps
3@ 28 gr Avg 2600 fps
IMG_3418.jpeg
Both groups were at 125 yards with Magneto Speed on. Both I would call a success! This case is not completely solved. Because I did a complete 180, I don’t know what the culprit of the over pressure was.

- Does the rifle not agree with Lil’Gun?

- Is Federal 350 brass softer?

- the bullet seating depth in the first loads was long but was .007” under SAAMI spec. Maybe that chamber is short throated? I did chamber the longer round and then remove them. They did not stick and showed know signs of scuffing from rifling.

Any thoughts appreciated!!!

OH…..
 
BuckeyeHntr said:
I have been working on this setup for a minute. Have just been compiling facts to make a post.

Living in Ohio all my buddies are shooting straight walls. Hence, why I do a lot of loading for 350 Legend.

Rifle: Savage Axis II
Starting Load:
125 gr SH
27.5 gr Lil’Gun
CCI 450 SRP
Federal Brass 1.70” trim length
Bullet seated middle top of first PDR ridge. No Crimp.
OACL= 2.254”
View attachment 6934
(middle round)
RESULT:
View attachment 6935
Blown primer.
So, I have built loads for a handful of 350’s and this charge weight with LIL’Gun has always been slightly over middle of the charge range.
Mistake #1: In my attempt to save components I decided to start there.

Mistake #2: Using brass I was given with the rifle (once fired in that rifle) that I had never loaded in 350, using a primer I had not previously used.

After the blown primer I returned to my loading bench and pulled the bullets in the remainder of the pressure ladder. Weighing each charge as I went. All charges were what I expected.

So I decided to decrease the charge to 24 gr of Lil’Gun. Keeping all other components and measurements the same as the previous test.

Result:
View attachment 6936
Considerable cratering and gas leakage around primer.

I have used this charge weight of Lil’Gun in 350 Leg with a 172 SH and had zero pressure observed.

Perplexed, I decided to 180 out and go back to what I know.

- I sized some Winchester brass and trimmed to 1.70”.

- Primed with CCI 450 the same as before to prove the primer wasn’t the issue. (Possible it still could be when combined with Lil’Gun. But doubtful.)

- Loaded pressure Ladder with W296. (Magneto Speed)
24- 2406 fps
25- 2471 fps
26- 2520 fps
27- 2574 fps
27.5- 2617 fps
28- 2606 fps
28.5- 2642 fps
View attachment 6939
- All primers nicely rounded.
- Out of case capacity due to seating bullet deeper.

- Seated bullets deeper to 2.163” OACL with no crimp.View attachment 6937
- Pressure ladder produced a ragged hole at 50 yds.

- Built 7 loads (all I had left)
4 @ 26 gr Avg 2515 fps
3@ 28 gr Avg 2600 fps
View attachment 6938
Both groups were at 125 yards with Magneto Speed on. Both I would call a success! This case is not completely solved. Because I did a complete 180, I don’t know what the culprit of the over pressure was.

- Does the rifle not agree with Lil’Gun?

- Is Federal 350 brass softer?

- the bullet seating depth in the first loads was long but was .007” under SAAMI spec. Maybe that chamber is short throated? I did chamber the longer round and then remove them. They did not stick and showed know signs of scuffing from rifling.

Any thoughts appreciated!!!

OH…..
Click to expand...
Welcome to the blown primer club. If you haven't done it you haven't been loading long enough!

There are a few steps you took that make sense as to why you are now at a viable charge weight and recipe:

1. You have more jump to the lands
2. You are using a slightly slower powder
3. No crimping of the mouth, because that is where the round head spaces off of. Crimp that and it slides past the chamber wall and causes spiked pressures. @kneedeep can correct me or provide more on this and the 350 LGD loading in general.

Yes, Federal brass is soft. I saw once where a Federal rep stated they make their brass softer to seal the chamber better and they make it so it shoots good once, and not made for reloaders. I've reloaded a lot of Federal brass and they have the worst pocket life. Hornady comes in second.

In regards to the case mouth and headspace. Place a prepped case in the chamber and then use a borescope to see where it is lining up to the chamber wall.
 
Last edited:
Thanks BFD.
I figured that Federal brass was pretty soft after seeing this. I never crimp my 350 Leg. Loads. Not saying it’s wrong. I just don’t take the chance.
 
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You would be safe to say crimping a 350 LDG is wrong. By doing so, the case is allowed to slide past the chamber wall and occupy space with the bullet giving 0 chamber neck clearance and causes kabooms.
 
Noted. I will pass this info along. Though I’m the only guy I know reloading this round. No one else I know wants to play with this temperamental little round. I find pressures to be erratic occasionally, chambers to be very different rifle to rifle. It’s just a different animal.
 
BuckeyeHntr said:
Noted. I will pass this info along. Though I’m the only guy I know reloading this round. No one else I know wants to play with this temperamental little round. I find pressures to be erratic occasionally, chambers to be very different rifle to rifle. It’s just a different animal.
Click to expand...
Lol! I'm not a fan. I'm pretty sure it head spaces off the bullet.
 
Good to know Steve. I have gotten away with seating it out in a handful of rifles, increasing case capacity to 29.5 of W296 and depending on the rifle, pushing Velocities to around 2800 fps. I will be measuring distance to lands in every rifle from now on before I decide on an OACL.
 
Well Ohio allows unlimited straight wall case length so the 350L is at bottom of barrel these days. Interesting legal is the .350 Legend is .355.

IMG_4312.jpeg
 
Muddy you are absolutely correct. But everyone is shooting the 350 due to its cost effectiveness and honestly most deer in Ohio are shot sub 150 yds. And if we’re being honest the majority are shot sub 100 yds. In both cases the 350 is more than adequate. I have shot deer with everything from 12 ga rifled 1 oz slugs down to .22 Mag (cull operations on game farms) and they don’t have problems dying when the bullet is placed. We all know that.
 
In hindsight I shouldn’t say “everyone” the 450 Bushmaster is equally as popular with 45/70 close behind. I think some people find that when loaded to maximum performance levels, they are heavier recoiling rifles than they want to deal with for deer.
 
@BuckeyeHntr

The 350 is the most finicky cartridge I have ever loaded. I agree with the above that your oal in the first pic was into the lands (Without looking at my notes).

The 350 is the first cartridge I’ve seen where ever primer I’ve tried makes a significant difference in velocity and accuracy.

Now crimping is the most critical in my opinion. In an email exchange with Hodgdon they explained that because of case fill, powder characteristic with case fill and bullet weight that the 350 legend has to be crimped. Reason being, the bullet is highly likely to get pushed into the lands from primer ignition as the powder lites. The timing of this can cause erratic pressures and velocities. It can also cause over pressure. To keep this from happening you must crimp for consistency and reliability. Now the issue with crimping is the cartridge headspace’s off of the case mouth. The diameter of the case mouth is critical after crimping. You need enough crimp to hold the pill until powder ignition but not too much as to reduce the case mouth below saami spec. If reduced too much (too heavy of a crimp) the case mouth can wedge in the throat and not allow the case to release the pill unless way over pressure.

Finicky might be an understatement
Kneedeep
 
The 350, as with other straight wall cartridges, has pros and cons. Overall the pros out way the cons as a good whitetail cartridge. Especially if buying factory ammo and for kids just starting to shoot.

There are more straight wall cartridges coming to market because of the popularity as game laws change in the Midwest. Most have similar issues as the 350. We’ll see where it all shacks out.
 
Thinking about the crimping issue with the 350L. I haven’t looked at Lee’s offerings for this, but wouldn’t a 9x19 Factory Taper Crimp die work? Especially since both cartridges headspace off of the case mouth. Of course, Lee might have a proper taper crimp die out now.
 
Modoc said:
Thinking about the crimping issue with the 350L. I haven’t looked at Lee’s offerings for this, but wouldn’t a 9x19 Factory Taper Crimp die work? Especially since both cartridges headspace off of the case mouth. Of course, Lee might have a proper taper crimp die out now.
Click to expand...
Lee’s setter die has the proper taper crimp. They also have the factory crimp. I don’t know if there’s much difference as long as that case mouth makes saami spec dimensions.
 
It’s not lil gun. I have run it in every 350 I have loaded for. I end up very close to the same load everytime. I also crimp mine. Mostly gas guns so crimping to me is a must with these or they slide around a bit. I would bet it’s in the brass and or primer.
 
The .350 headspaces on the rim. Which truly makes it a "twitchy" cartridge to load for. Throats are all over map from guys I talk to loading it. You would think being straight wall easy peasy. Trimming to 1.710 critical. So when case is trimmed to 1.700, you now are 0.010 setback off headspace of the brass. I think you are on right thought to measure jump since what I hear not consistent rifle to rifle. I really don't know what to think about crimping a cartridge that headspaced off the case mouth you crimp?🤷🏻‍♂️ Nor trimming back from headspace measurement? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Which is why I prefer the .357 Max!😂
 
Muddyboots said:
Throats are all over map from guys I talk to loading it. You would think being straight wall easy peasy. Trimming to 1.710 critical. So when case is trimmed to 1.700, you now are 0.010 setback off headspace of the brass. I think you are on right thought to measure jump since what I hear not consistent rifle to rifle.
Click to expand...
You can look up saami specs. They revised the chamber specs in 2021. I believe the trim to length is important as the firing pin can push the entire round forward until it makes contact, if the trim length is too short.

And I also agree the chamber dimensions are all over the map. Finding the distance to lands can be difficult unless you first fit the trim length of your brass to your chamber. This is where a borescope helps.

I have personally experience with two different chamber dimensions. It was easily seen with the borescope. Measuring that distance is another can of worms.

Kneedeep
 
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