Tip Deformation

spokenfly said:
Hmm, I wonder if a pointed tip is even necessary. A blunt tip would still prevent the deformation of the copper, allow for longer COL, and be less prone to damage. Maybe the polymer tips should just taper to a flat surface somewhere between where they enter the bullet and the current pointed end?
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maybe for competition target shooters, but the tip is so small already that a tiny flat meplat portion wouldn't even be noticeable for hunting but would reduce/eliminate any deformation from typical handling in the field.
It wouldn't hurt to hit the tip with a nail file. How much IDK.
 
Gday spokenfly
Smart man here 👍
CC2A8C58-181E-42FB-BC38-EE30A8370651.jpeg

spokenfly said:
Hmm, I wonder if a pointed tip is even necessary. A blunt tip would still prevent the deformation of the copper, allow for longer COL, and be less prone to damage. Maybe the polymer tips should just taper to a flat surface somewhere between where they enter the bullet and the current pointed end?
Click to expand...

Tested this theory initially on prototypes & what you will find is regardless of tip profile you get extremely consistent results terminally in the transition zone
Remove the tip fully & you get a wider transition zone across various resistances

tip polymer composition is extremely important in giving us consistency

Good pickup spokenfly 😎
Cheers
 
Gday Jessej

Thanks for that information as what we found to I think 430 was as far as we went with damaged tips & still Moa of wallaby

JesseJ said:
Inside 3-400 yards, you won’t notice a decrease in hunting accuracy. If you’re shooting 1/4 moa groups on paper, maybe a little. Next time you’re at the range, do a little testing with side cutters. They will majorly deform a tip (and shorten it enough for a magazine)
Back in the day, we tested balistic tips in this way. 3/4 moa RUMs didn’t see any change out 400 yards, between pristine tips and a plethora of damaged, mashed, and broke off tips. View attachment 5231
Picture reference for any geographically challenged person that may have a different name for them. 😉
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Pictures always welcome & most time it’s not geographically thats the issue it’s the way you lot spell things 🤣😜
Then there is me I’ll mess a picture up re the 6.5 118 ‘s 🤪

Common ground on those side cutters 😇
Although I probably use them differently to most 🤔🤣

Cheers
 
Mountainman said:
aluminum tips :unsure:
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Gday mountainman
The harder the tip the worse the outcome is with hammers
Aluminium tips are a whole new chapter & a full redesign of the hammer would need to be adopted & then I say it would struggle to give consistency due to the alloy metallurgy

That’s why you see aluminium tips struggle on the whole the best I’ve seen is apex & they are just behind the hammer for consistency as I’ve still not yet failed the hammer tip & took a bit for the apex go to badlands that’s easy to fail but on a few of the hammer tips I tested it gave less than that ideal results real quickly & I dare say if hammers went that way like they tried with different polymers the discussions would be shifted to more like I’ve found with badlands & that’s terminal not does it effect accuracy

Terminally it dosent matter the shape of the hammer tip it’s one that aids in consistency


Cheers
 
I think there may not be sufficient understanding that HP bullets like Hammers require more care in protecting them for optimal results. They damage easily in handling, carrying loosely, hard magazine use, possibly too long for magazine COAL for easy feeding, etc. Tipped HHT offer more protection plus terminal performance. End of day, bullets like these require protective handling to insure optimum performance. This is not a Hammer unique design, all "high performance" bullets require attentive handling.
 
I was thinking about tip damage while pulling 50 308/212gr eldx bullets from 300 Norma cases. I was using an impact puller with the cushion in the bottom to keep from damaging the bullets. I was trying not to damage these bullets while pulling by using light hits as the bullet moved out to the end of the case mouth. I still needed up with a few bad ones.

ELDX tips are on the hard side for those who haven’t shot them. Here are the worst of the 50.
IMG_2285.jpeg
Kneedeep
 
I'm going to do another round of load development to see if I can tighten up these groups. Once I find something I like, I'll load up a bunch, shoot some single-loaded and shoot some mag loaded (to recreate) to see if there's a noticable difference at 100yrds.

And to answer your question @MeatBuck, they all looked like that out of the magazine. It wasn't the worst, just the only one I saved.
 
kneedeep said:
I was thinking about tip damage while pulling 50 308/212gr eldx bullets from 300 Norma cases. I was using an impact puller with the cushion in the bottom to keep from damaging the bullets. I was trying not to damage these bullets while pulling by using light hits as the bullet moved out to the end of the case mouth. I still needed up with a few bad ones.

ELDX tips are on the hard side for those who haven’t shot them. Here are the worst of the 50.
View attachment 5297
Kneedeep
Click to expand...
ELD-X bullets suck!! I have 300 of the 212gr .308 cal and they are now being shot out of a 300 blackout subsonic just to get rid of them. Never seen tip damage like that though....but I use a collet bullet puller for that reason.
 
I try not to make a habit out of pulling bullets. These happened to come with a custom rifle as the custom load. On the bright side, there’s N570 in the case and mag primers at the base.

If I see a damaged tip that I’m about to shoot, I just whittle it down with my pocket knife.
 
@clem when you were loading the rounds into your magazine, did you make sure the rounds were all the way to the rear before loading the next round?

I’ve see guys get them bound up while trying to load the second and third round into the magazine because the tip of the one below it is catching on the lip of the magazine.

I’m guessing you’ve checked this but wanted to cover the bases.

Thanks for the recommendation
Kneedeep
 
kneedeep said:
I was thinking about tip damage while pulling 50 308/212gr eldx bullets from 300 Norma cases. I was using an impact puller with the cushion in the bottom to keep from damaging the bullets. I was trying not to damage these bullets while pulling by using light hits as the bullet moved out to the end of the case mouth. I still needed up with a few bad ones.

ELDX tips are on the hard side for those who haven’t shot them. Here are the worst of the 50.
View attachment 5297
Kneedeep
Click to expand...
What I do is first add more foam in the puller. (There is a hard plastic X in the bottom of the one I have). Then tap gently sideways on a 4x4 block until bullet is tilted a little. Then pull out by hand. Takes a little longer but so what.
 
I broke through 5-6 RCBS hammer pullers over a span of 20yrs. I bought one, but RCBS continued to warranty them. Anyway, I detest bullet pulling and sought the collet puller route. I got the Hornady version. I found the best way to use without screwing up the case mouth or bullet is to watch the bullet go into the collet die and then clinch onto it right above the case mouth just firmly. (The instructions just call for setting it up and not watching the process and I ruined a few cases and bullets this way) There is definitely an art or finesse to collet bullet pulling. I think I'll just forgo the hassle and stop making mistakes in hand loading...
 
I go combo route. Tap with kinetic to get it "moving", swap over to collet puller. Seems less marring potential on bullet from either process as stand alone.

It's not always mistakes, but you move on from a bullet and have ammo sitting there. I'd rather pull, save powder, brass and PRIMERS for a load that I am now geeked over.

Now I understand this never happens to @BFD.
 
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