350 Legend Load Development, Crimping?

Kneedeep,
Thank you for the thought and time that was put into this response. I hadn’t thought of the bullet moving “pre-ignition” due to lack of crimp.
I solved this problem (seemingly) by reducing the amount of flare to damn near nothing, seating to the top of a PDR band and the bullet is tight (enough). Granted I am running a single shot so no worries if set back. I also switched to a Rem 7 1/2 primer which in my rifle cleared up the very inconsistent velocities and pressures.
 
Lil’ Gun does seem to give the best velocities for me as well, but at the expense of ES/SD in my rifle. Have run up over 2900 fps by a hair with a flat primer. Have some final group testing to do later this month running the 125’s at 2800 fps over 29.5 gr W296.

Did I read right that you shot a .037” group with yer friends 350?
 
Sr Chief said:
I've done quite a bit of testing with the 350 for a friend. Last weekend we tested the 125 Maker (tried to get him to go with the hammer). We had also worked up loads for the 170 Hornady SP. Lil-Gun has been the popular powder with most folks for the speed. IME, the accuracy wasn't there in any of the lil gun loads. I managed to get .5" @ 100 with A-11FS and the 170 gr. With the 125 Maker I tested 2400, Lil gun, and 4100. The best we found was 2400 which shot .037" @ 100 and the sweet spot was at 2565 fps and single digit ES. We could have gone faster but that was where the rifle liked it and he is loving it. I crimped all rounds with the Lee FCD, not a hard crimp but a firm crimp for consistency.
Talked to the owner of maker bullets and he says lilgun is popular and guys are getting 2800-2900 fps with his 125 gr. I also took it out to 300 yds. Maker lists the bc as .160 and after validating with strelok, the bc is .267. My friends rifle is easily a 300 yd deer killer if the bullet expands at that range.
He has taken 4 deer in the last 2 seasons and it killed all of them but the deer didnt leave a blood trail. The bullets destroyed the lungs but for some reason no blood trail. Another friend and his son tell me the same story and they used Win factory ammo and maker 150 gr and they did take one deer with the 125 hammer which they tell me did the same thing. Strange cartridge. Hope some of this helps others.
One other thing. be sure to check case length as his did stretch.
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Sr Chief

All of your posts regarding the 350 is helpful information. Thanks for taking the time to post it. I know you load for many different cartridges.

What primers do you use and have you tried different ones?

Thanks
Kneedeep
 
Is the CCI 450 the SR Magnum primer? I have been running the 400’s, BR-4’s and the Rem 7 1/2’s. Hadn’t heard of the “UG’s” before. May have to look around the inter web to find those.
 
BuckeyeHntr said:
Is the CCI 450 the SR Magnum primer? I have been running the 400’s, BR-4’s and the Rem 7 1/2’s. Hadn’t heard of the “UG’s” before. May have to look around the inter web to find those.
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Yes the CCI 450 is a small rifle magnum primer. I believe magnum primers will be the best in the 350. It’s just a long pistol cartridge. Lots of fine grain powder to lite. The first primers I tried in the cva 350 were Winchester small pistol magnum primers. I had very good accuracy and velocity using these primers, even with LilGun. These primers produced the highest velocity across the powders I used, compared to the small rifle primers I’ve tried. But as you can imagine the cups are not thick enough and I get occasional pierced primers. Nothing serious, just a small hole not large enough for the firing pin to stick. Magnum pistol primers are not rated for these pressures and are also slightly shallower, so I wouldn’t recommend them.

I need to pick up some small rifle magnum primers as I don’t have any on hand either.

Along with the cva I also have a ruger American in 350 to load for. The ruger has a slightly longer barrel. 2” longer I believe. It didn’t like LilGun as well as the cva did. I’ve been working with SW Socom powder. Both rifles seem to like it and it produces good accuracy and velocities. The Ruger especially likes it. But I do want to pick up some mag primers before going too much further. Although both barrels still need shot some more to see how they settle in.

Kneedeep
 
Sr Chief said:
My friends rifle is easily a 300 yd deer killer if the bullet expands at that range.
He has taken 4 deer in the last 2 seasons and it killed all of them but the deer didnt leave a blood trail. The bullets destroyed the lungs but for some reason no blood trail. Another friend and his son tell me the same story and they used Win factory ammo and maker 150 gr and they did take one deer with the 125 hammer which they tell me did the same thing. Strange cartridge.
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Sr Chief

Our state just allowed for the use of these straight walled cartridges towards the end of last year. They implemented the law during deer season and only allowed counties with a “late winter antlerless” season to use these cartridges. My county was not one of them. But I did talk to a guy that shot a deer with the 350. He and his buddies killed 4 total and reported the same thing as you’ve stated. Deer run, lungs destroyed, no blood and no pass through. This is definitely not a powerhouse cartridge. But, especially for kids, it’s way better recoil and accuracy compared to a shotgun with slugs. The impact velocities will be very low at just about any distance. So the question is, are copper bullets and advantage over cup and core here?

As an example my kids have been shooting downloaded muzzleloaders in order to reduce recoil. I use the hornady 250gr 45cal SST running very slow. It almost always exits, has a little blood and the deer don’t run very far. My kids have killed deer out to 130 yards with this combo.

But I don’t believe the heaviest of bullets for the 350 will have enough energy to punch through like the muzzleloader bullets do. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out. I’m guessing my buddy that runs tracking dogs will get a bunch more calls this coming year as I believe the accuracy of the 350 will be better than most hunters abilities to find their deer.

Kneedeep
 
I agree that the 350 Legend is not a power house. Hailing from the Buckeye state I am also familiar with the shotgun/muzzloader seasons. Now the straight wall season. I have been shooting deer with a .357 Mag for about 4 years. Have shot 2 deer a year with it. I will say shot placement is paramount and when done right, deer go 50 yds and pile up, but never drop on spot (spine shot, dome shot, sure I get it).

The ranges of these 8 deer are from 10ft to an admittedly too far, 120 paces. All lung or heart shot deer with 157 gr XTP’s.

I don’t know about the 350 being a 300 yd deer round. Won’t be carrying much velocity or energy when it gets there.

This is the round I am working on.
IMG_2957.png
125 gr SH
29.5 gr W296
REM 7 1/2
2800 Avg fps at muzzle.
Feel like this will be very adequate out to 200 with sound shot placement.

OH…..
 
To update this information a little. I just got around to trying CCI 450 (mag) primers in the 350 with LilGun and the Hornady 165gr FTX. CVA rifle, same powder charge as I’m using with CCI 400 primers.

Groups with the mag primers opened to 3 plus inches at 100 yards. With 400 primers this load shoots under an inch.

@Sr Chief

Regards
Kneedeep
 
IMG_3140.jpeg
Loaded for the upcoming firearms season! I will be posting the load in the “share your hammer loads” thread. But figured I would post it here as well.

125 gr Shock Hammer
29.5 gr W296
Fed 205 primer
OACL 2.253”
Brass trimmed to 1.70”
Round is un-crimped with case mouth landing on top of a PDR band. I believe this to be very important to insure correct headspace.
Avg MV 2800 fps

20” barrel CVA Scout

OH….
 
That’s a good question Sr Chief. I’ll check when I get home to the bench tonight. May be later as it’s a Monday. 🤮
 
350 legend shooters,

Do any of you have any kills with the 125sh or 172sh to report terminal performance?

Thanks
Kneedeep
 
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kneedeep said:
350 legend shooters,

Do any of you have any kills with the 125sh or 172sh to report terminal performance?

Thanks
Kneedeep
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Yep several. I’ve killed some out closer to 300. That being said with so testing I’ve done 300 does not give reliable bullet shedding. It killed them because it was behind shoulder and a 35 cal but not ideal. I would say depending on how hard you push them 230-250 should be max range. Everything I’ve shot under 200 with them gives great performance. Tons of internal damage as one would expect. These are all with the 125gr. I’ve found with any cartridge that fits in a ar-15 mag lighter bullets are always better. They just don’t have the speed to start with to make the bullet open up.
 
@Snox801 and @Sr Chief

Thanks for the reports. Sounds like excellent results and great to hear. Our kids didn’t shoot hammers in the 350 this year due to the possible crimp issues I’ve stated earlier.

For comparison, of 3 deer shot with the 165ftx, 70 yards and under, all three lung shots and had pass throughs with extremely good blood trails that started at the shot. But the average recovery distance was 50-60 yards. Significantly higher than your reports with hammers.

There were 4 deer shot with factory hornady 170 interlocks, 2 were spine. One lung shot at 40 yards, pass through, that was very low and back in the lungs resulted in a great blood trail after 15 yards of run. No blood at the shot. But the deer only traveled 40-50 yards to recovery. The other deer was also 40ish yard shot, hit back of the lungs and out the gut just behind the diaphragm. Also a pass through. Luckily this deer was the last to get tracked that evening as we were unaware of the poor shot placement. There was blood at the shot and was somewhat weak for the first 20 or so yards but then opened up for very easy tracking. Distance to recovery was around 150 yards.

Thanks again for your reports,
Kneedeep
 
Sr Chief said:
Oh yeah. I carried the m60 for 2 yrs (Seabees) as well as other weapons. Saw the battering the ammo took. I expanded primer pockets a bit in my AR once. Primers fell out into the action and jammed it up. (y);)
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Lawrt, you squids get a room! :p This Marine hates loose primers in the AR lower! BTDT and try not to BTDT in that regard!
 
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