7-08 Alberta moose

[BFD]

Because at 2.830, as you suggest, the tips would be touching the mag box, not something I want in a hunting rifle. Besides, even with the .015 space, the polymer tips were deforming, presumably under recoil. I've never had that situation with any other poly tipped bullet in any of the chambers I load for.
Apparently, Steve found the .015 acceptable. He reacted with a when I responded to your earlier inquiry.

Glad you got it all figured.

 

[Farleg]

Gday
Ok I don’t have a issue with getting small groups & trying to get that in our combo that’s a individual thing

I have a couple general questions

1/ you have 2 rifles that won’t group as per this pill
2/ have you confirmed your twists
3/ have you cleaned your rifle back to bare metal prior to shooting hammers
4/ the max range you will hunt to also interests me

Think that’s it
Cheers

 

[Eaglemountainman]

Gday
Ok I don’t have a issue with getting small groups & trying to get that in our combo that’s a individual thing

I have a couple general questions

1/ you have 2 rifles that won’t group as per this pill
2/ have you confirmed your twists
3/ have you cleaned your rifle back to bare metal prior to shooting hammers
4/ the max range you will hunt to also interests me

Think that’s it
Cheers

1 correct
2 yes 1:9
3 yes
4 300 yds

 

[BigGame]

I have been slow to test with the 132HHT in my 7mm-08 because my load with the 131HH is so accurate it seems academic.

My load is 44.2gr Varget, CCI BR-2, Lapua cases, 0.015 jump, 0.004 mandrel tension with a 2/8 crimp. Velocity is 2,980 from a 22” barrel with 1:8 twist. It is consistently sub-MOA.

On refining loads with Hammers, I use all of the same methods with any bullets - tuning charge and seating depth (possibly crimp). While I’ve found Hammers to be more forgiving, they still react to these factors.

 

[Koda]

On refining loads with Hammers, I use all of the same methods with any bullets - tuning charge and seating depth (possibly crimp). While I’ve found Hammers to be more forgiving, they still react to these factors.

Re seating depth, this is the first Ive heard working for Hammers. Everywhere Ive read 'hammers are not sensitive to seating depth' which has left me scratching my head fine tuning for accuracy.
I will check this advice out, thank you for sharing.

 

[BFD]

I just ran some 132HHT. AR10. I’ve some bolt gun 708 I’ll look for too.

 

[Koda]

I just ran some 132HHT. Want to talk precision?

Im curious if group size is affected by seating depth nodes?

 

[BigGame]

Re seating depth, this is the first Ive heard working for Hammers. Everywhere Ive read 'hammers are not sensitive to seating depth' which has left me scratching my head fine tuning for accuracy.

Seating depth remains the primary tool for group size, in my experience. Including with Hammers. Though it’s common for me to see good grouping at many seating depths, so it depends how much you feel like testing. Some may not feel it’s necessary.

 

[Eaglemountainman]

Glad you got it all figured.

I just ran some 132HHT. AR10. I’ve some bolt gun 708 I’ll look for too.
View attachment 5524

You seem to be taking it personally, the fact that my guns don't seem to like this particular bullet. Is it because I rejected your suggestion to seat them out further, until they contacted the front of the magazine?
I'm happy that they shoot well for you.

 

[Steve Davis]

Ann easy test that sometimes makes a great diff is changing to a different primer. Some rifles respond well to seating depth adjustment.

 

[BFD]

You seem to be taking it personally, the fact that my guns don't seem to like this particular bullet. Is it because I rejected your suggestion to seat them out further, until they contacted the front of the magazine?
I'm happy that they shoot well for you.

HAHAHAHA. "Honey, a stranger on the internet won't move his bullets .015 forward! All IS LOST!" Seriously though, I was just trying to help and it's certainly always a guy's personal call on gun, bullets, program. I've had bullets not work too. It happens, but it is an especially odd occurrence for HH and HHT not to print tight groups. I can understand looking back at the "groups post" it could be taken as a dig, but I really was trying to get somewhere with my points/help until I realized it was about midnight!

Anyway, You might try the 131 Heavy Hammer Hunter. I just discovered it has a profile that puts the initial bearing surface contact farther forward on the ogive. It might make better use of the magazine clearance you like with also reducing the jump. This is what I am accomplishing with the bullet for my AR10. A very common jump for Hammers is .040-.100+. When mine don't like the .100s they seem to settle in the .040-.050 ish.

@LightTheTower - reported some good terminals on the bullet. I just in the past couple days started load development with it.

 

[BFD]

Im curious if group size is affected by seating depth nodes?

Oh yes, I've had noticeable difference with seating depth changes by the .010 increment changes in seating depth.

 

[BFD]

Sorry to hear that, but it happens - every rifle is a little different.

I know Varget perks best a couple grains below max in most .308win's I have loaded for - I don't have any experience with 7-08, so I really shouldn't be giving advice, but I kinda wonder what 43.5gr would do?

Got any imr4895 or h4895?

I got the 131HH to print tight with 43-43.5gr for 2980fps out a 22" Kimber 84 708. I suspect Eaglemountainman is blowing the groups with the higher charges.

 

[LightTheTower]

I pushed the 131 HHH over 3200 in my 22” A-bolt 280 REM with 3 powders. Varget, RL 19, and Acc 4350. Varget case fill was only about 80 to 85%, which led to ES numbers of >50 (assume due to inconsistent ignition). RL 19 shot the best groups, but that was in 90°+ summer weather, and I was taking the rifle on an elk hunt in Idaho in September where I expected 30° temps. Acc 4350 shot under an moa at 3150fps consistently, so I settled on it. I tuned all those powders with crimp. I’m a fairly new reloader, so I didn’t have primer choices, but I certainly would have experimented if I had.
We were working a load with my brothers 308 at the same time. Tried 137 HH, 150 PH, and 151 AH with Varget and Acc 4064. 150 PH accuracy was NOT good anywhere in the testing. 137 HH shot good with Varget, but not 4064. 151 AH shot ok with Varget but not 4064. Decided to try TAC with the 151 AH (bigger bullet for elk) and BINGO! Speeds up to 3100+ and accuracy everywhere in the ladder.
I guess, my point is, I was a novice reloader just trying stuff to see what worked and eventually found a sweet spot for both rifles. Did I waste a lot of components? Probably so, but I was learning as I went. Conclusion: simply… some rifles don’t like certain bullets or certain powders. I believed in Hammer’s science enough to keep trying till I found a recipe for success.

 

[Koda]

Some rifles respond well to seating depth adjustment.

Seating depth remains the primary tool for group size, in my experience. Including with Hammers.

Oh yes, I've had noticeable difference with seating depth changes by the .010 increment changes in seating depth.

RE: seating depth. This is a huge revelation to me.
All Ive ever heard in this forum and any forum, from experienced Hammer loaders is Hammers are not sensitive to seating depth. Then all I ever read is how Hammers are different and throw everything you know about traditional bullets out the window. Members that question this, get shown to read a dozen stickie threads to confirm the why, with no simple explanations just go read.

A little frustrating as Ive left a tool off the table to fine tune my own Hammer handloads. I'll be experimenting with seating depth nodes for my group size now.

 

[Muddyboots]

The only aspect I see that can affect accuracy to starting with virgin brass. The brass fire forming to chamber is absorbing some of the pressure which is not always consistent shot to shot brass to brass which can affect overall accuracy. The case stretch aka headspace change of the brass can be perplexing as part of any load.

I would recommend using at least 1X fired brass to maximize accuracy potential of any load.

 

[LightTheTower]

RE: seating depth. This is a huge revelation to me.
All Ive ever heard in this forum and any forum, from experienced Hammer loaders is Hammers are not sensitive to seating depth. Then all I ever read is how Hammers are different and throw everything you know about traditional bullets out the window. Members that question this, get shown to read a dozen stickie threads to confirm the why, with no simple explanations just go read.

A little frustrating as Ive left a tool off the table to fine tune my own Hammer handloads. I'll be experimenting with seating depth nodes for my group size now.

I haven’t messed with it, largely because I want col as long as possible with the crimp in a groove. Maximize powder capacity and speed is my preference.

 

[riceman]

RE: seating depth. This is a huge revelation to me.
All Ive ever heard in this forum and any forum, from experienced Hammer loaders is Hammers are not sensitive to seating depth. Then all I ever read is how Hammers are different and throw everything you know about traditional bullets out the window. Members that question this, get shown to read a dozen stickie threads to confirm the why, with no simple explanations just go read.

A little frustrating as Ive left a tool off the table to fine tune my own Hammer handloads. I'll be experimenting with seating depth nodes for my group size now.

Here's a little example. It does work, but in my experience will consume more components. Thus shifting to crimping and adjusting it helps quicker for me.
Example 25-06 rem 700 off the shelf adl
Cheap package deal from sportsmans warehouse.
This rifle was lucky to shoot 1.5moa on a good day.
Load as shows 52gn imr 4350 92hh
Velocity measured by old beta chrony.
Started .050 off lands, this rifle would almost always put 2 next to each other and one about 1.5" away.
Someone on the forum had the same issue, and RichCoyle mentioned casually "adjust seating depth". No mention which way, so I went closer to the lands .005 @ a time.
Pics show it works, this process works as like crimping as previously said just two methods to hopefully get to the same point.

 

[Koda]

Here's a little example. It does work, but in my experience will consume more components. Thus shifting to crimping and adjusting it helps quicker for me.

Seems to me fine tuning group size is always going to consume more components. I didnt have luck testing crimping but Ive had a separate issue with my crimp die Ive been working out so keeping everything on the table here.

My factory 25-06 barrel was notorious for the 3rd round moving 1.5"... cant wait to get my rifle back from my smith and start working on that one again.

 

[BigGame]

A lot of different methods to reach a good conclusion noted just in this thread. I learn a lot from the postings of others, but I prefer to test everything in the lab we each have on our reloading benches, where possible.

On seat depth, BFD noted above:
“very common jump for Hammers is .040-.100+. When mine don't like the .100s they seem to settle in the .040-.050 ish.“

I would second this. Though the 7mm-08 load I mentioned above has a jump of 0.015, I’ve had several others in various cartridges that fit BFD’s experience.