Help me shrink my group size....

@fuzzymarindave I like your idea of staying behind the rifle in shooting position for the string. I'll give that a try next range sesson.
Im undecided on the Inflex recoil pad, ive never had one that thick and squishy but it might not be the issue.
My guess on the factory bedding for now, is its fine as long as I dont take the stock off several times. I dont think their bedding material is designed to last that way, but left on, its very very tight.
 
Sharing some targets from this rifle for reference. This is from my Nosler brass recipe before I switched to Peterson brass. What this pic shows is moa consistency between 1, 2 and 300yds.
Note: on the 100yd target ignore the bottom two because those were for measuring velocities only and a pressure ladder for a different seating depth.
This is about half the group size of my Peterson recipe, and consistent out to 300yds. With the same recipe I have held as tight as .5moa on a prior day. If my Peterson brass held even 1moa I wouldn't worry about it, I need to figure out how to tune my Peterson recipe.
1709528325295.jpeg

On a prior day...
1709528347712.jpeg
 
I'm assuming your peterson brass is new / never fired. Was the nosler brass new / never fired or has it been fire formed.

I've never seen new brass not shoot well....but I have seen new brass shoot different than once fired / fire formed brass. I can't imagine the peterson brass is your problem...(but I've been wrong before). Watching closely to see what you figure out.
 
jrebel said:
I'm assuming your peterson brass is new / never fired. Was the nosler brass new / never fired or has it been fire formed.

I've never seen new brass not shoot well....but I have seen new brass shoot different than once fired / fire formed brass. I can't imagine the peterson brass is your problem...(but I've been wrong before). Watching closely to see what you figure out.
Click to expand...
I dont think the Peterson brass is the issue. I think I need to refine my load recipe.

Both brands are all well fireformed now. With the Nosler brass I had the issue of a brand new rifle (barrel) and virgin brass... and being somewhat new to handloading I went thru a few ladders before I started trusting the velocities being consistent. By the time I got ahold of some Peterson brass Id say the barrel had settled in, lessons learned and a much less time developing the Peterson recipe.
 
@Koda , I’d take @BFD up on his offer. I know you said you’d like to figure it out yourself, but there’s value in what he can teach you. I recently sent him some brass to check for me since I wasn’t very familiar with measuring brass for pressure signs. He measure it for me, and told me how to do it myself. I’ve already applied it to more loads and I have confidence that I’m doing it correctly. Just save yourself frustration and let him work it out. JM2C
 
Im not certain I even want to admit I did this, but this is what happens when you find out simple recoil pads are hand fitted after you buy the parts and you dont have the proper tools for the job.
1710113667634.jpeg
 
Do you have access to a belt sander? Scribe a line around your stock. Start with 80 grit. Finish with 100 or so. Pay particular attentiom to the angle at the toe. It's about a 20 minute job. (Remove the recoil pad Before sanding!)
 
gltaylor said:
Do you have access to a belt sander?
Click to expand...
I don't. I thought about it a couple days before this and its not super critical to me on this stock. I like the stock as its functional, but its cheap and just plastic. Its not a quality stock, just functional... (the adjustable cheek weld is what makes this "functional" otherwise this would be just a cheap plastic stock. Browning at least did that part right when going cheap). I thought about taking it to a smith and pay more money but it would still be a cheap plastic stock. I have just enough tools to figure most things out and knew I could install it ..."correctly" it just would just look kinda .. um bubbafied. I'm into this 50 bucks. If I keep this rifle someday I will replace the stock.

The way the stock fits into my shoulder is so much nicer though... really that "Inflex" pad was super squishy and Ive always wondered about that from day one, so soft and spongy it felt like it moved around (turns out it does). This one fits into my shoulder very comfortably but solid. I wont be surprised if it changes my POI, but I hope not. I don't know if this will help shrink my group size but its one question eliminated now.

Here's the worst side. I shaped this out with a table top band saw (flashback to high school wood shop, I've never forgot my teacher telling us that bandsaws were NOT shaping tools.... :) ). The slits shown are where I didn't get the relief cuts angled right since I didn't want to build a fixture to hold the pad square to the table. Its ugly, and I fully admit it. But I did get the toe angle correct.
Theres a 1/4" spacer in there too, Im kinda proud.. I had to use a .375 end mill in my drill press to cbore the screw holes in the spacer to fit the stocks alignment boss's (I did not want to modify the stock). Despite the bubbafied job, it was a fun quick project on a cold rainy PNW afternoon. Its supposed to be sunny here next weekend... :)

1710125580281.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Koda said:
Would it be beneficial to ask a random stranger at my range? I have only 3 friends that hunt, let alone shoot rifle. Im sort of on my own, with anything handloading and shooting.
Click to expand...
Maybe, if you can see someone is shooting well they might just get a better group or eliminate shooter technique or lack of practice.

That stranger might have another clue or suggestion.

One problem I have is when I walk down the 100m and back I'm breathing harder and and probably not as focused on my group or not settled.

I have some great groups from re barrelled factory hunting rifles but I have to do my part on the day.

I have measured the length to the lands and come just off them.

I'm mostly self taught or learned from reading

My .300wm doesn't quite make 1moa with a factory barrel. Frustrating but might just be the rifle or something I haven't picked up yet or just me.

.280a.i. is a cool looking cartridge so don't give up .
 
Im not certain when ill get to the range but next I will do a charge and seating depth test per BigGames notes in here and see what I learn from that.
I really appreciate all the tips and advice.
 
This article and the underlying research/references suggests the exact opposite of the load development advice I gave above. The article concludes to say that fine changes in charge or seating depth don’t matter - the observed differences are just statistical noise. Rather, one should simply test (large sample) a particular powder/bullet combo and change one of those if results are poor. I’m not endorsing the article (clearly my comments above disagree), but food for thought.

Node Nonsense: How You’ve Been Wasting Your Time and Money on Load Development

When I learned that much of what I'd always believed about load development might be wrong, I had to see the results for myself.
www.outdoorlife.com www.outdoorlife.com
 
BigGame said:
This article and the underlying research/references suggests the exact opposite of the load development advice I gave above. The article concludes to say that fine changes in charge or seating depth don’t matter - the observed differences are just statistical noise. Rather, one should simply test (large sample) a particular powder/bullet combo and change one of those if results are poor. I’m not endorsing the article (clearly my comments above disagree), but food for thought.

Node Nonsense: How You’ve Been Wasting Your Time and Money on Load Development

When I learned that much of what I'd always believed about load development might be wrong, I had to see the results for myself.
www.outdoorlife.com www.outdoorlife.com
Click to expand...
The author had interesting comment as part of the conclusion: "The theory of vibration nodes timed with bullet exit seems logical when an accomplished shooter and reloader is confidently lecturing you on the subject. But if this were true, your perfect node load would go out the window with any major change in temperature that altered your velocity. Ultimately, it just doesn’t hold up to large sample testing, not even a little bit. "

I'm open to simplifying my load development. I'll just need other excuses to go to the range every week or two.
 
BigGame said:
This article and the underlying research/references suggests the exact opposite of the load development advice I gave above.
Click to expand...
Thats an interesting article, Ill have to reread it when Im at home maybe I overlookedsomething.... but my initial reaction is the author didnt prove that small sample nodes are worthless. In fact he seemed to validate them. I know I dont have the time or money to do 50 round tests to validate my node.

Although that data is eventually discovered target practicing... where more fine tuning of the current load recipe is appropriate as its discovered. This is where im at...


Note, he didnt test seating depth nodes.
 
So im still working on this project. I did a seating depth test but was having an off day shooting for groups with several fliers. But I did notice velocity nodes (small samples....) with improved group size (minus any fliers).
Im going to repeat the seating depth test but centered around that one node.


The recoil pad replacement was a huge improvement to how the rifle feels under recoil.
 
FYI, I started a new thread to talk about the article and info I posted above so as not to derail here.

Quinlan/Neville Load Development Thoughts?

Yesterday (4/1/24) Tyler Freel at Outdoor Life published an article called "Node Nonsense: How You’ve Been Wasting Your Time and Money on Load Development" (https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/node-nonsense-load-development/). In it he introduces some things he learned from some Hornady podcasts...
hammerbullets.com
 
I finally had a chance to follow up on this project today, using the 280ai, I did my first seating depth test. Since I was originally far off the lands I moved forward. I did not expect so much difference.
Note: Im not a pro shooter so today I brought back my led sled to remove as much of me out of the equation as possible.

Side note, I attempted this test a previous weekend ago in the woods but wrote that off due to unstable shooting position and too many fliers. It did give me a rough hunch to focus on, thus the larger .015" gap from my current COAL....

Current COAL is 3.435" (.079" off lands).
COAL/group size
3.435/1.5" (reconfirmed)
3.450/1.5"
3.455/1"
3.460/.75"
3.465/.8"

1713065755787.jpeg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top