How much freebore for Hammers?

Koda said:
How did you measure your magazine max oal?

Mine is a 700, internal magazine that swings out. The follower measures 3.65" long. I figure thats probably max cartridge coal assuming it feeds fine.
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That should be about right, or just a hair shorter. Load your dummy to follower length and try to feed it from magazine to chamber. If the geometry is wrong, the bullet will likely jam or not feed smoothly from the magazine. Shorten loaded length about .005 at a time (seat deeper) and try. Do this til it feeds 100% reliably and smoothly. Just make sure you stay off the lands.
 
COAL L to R: 3.560, 3.470, 3.450
all feed from the magazine easy.
3.560 shows if seated longest, 2 pdr bands holding on.
Ideally I want to start load dev -.020" off the lands so Im deciding between 3.470 and 3.450. 3.450 is a nice round number....
(3.450 is exactly 1.60" difference I estimated in my first post -.005", not bad... )

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(I skuffed up first two bullets pulling back out. Ran out of threads backing out the seating stem.... Never had to back out my seating die two full turns. )
 
Assuming HHT's are similar to HH, 2 PDR's in neck is sufficient for stability. I would try 2 bands versus 3 bands and frankly ignore jump as long as it is at least 0.010. Measure and repeat. I found a consistent crimp point on a selected band more important than establishing a jump like for cup and core. I like a consistent crimp on the slope of the band versus the valley (more consistent crimp tension I believe) which is why I focus more on this instead of a desired jump. But once you have established the crimp point, you also have an ogive measurement to double check for crimp point on band.

YMMV!
 
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Muddyboots said:
Assuming HHT's are similar to HH, 2 PDR's in neck is sufficient for stability. I would try 2 bands versus 3 bands and frankly ignore jump as long as it is at least 0.010. Measure and repeat. I found a consistent crimp point on a selected band more important than establishing a jump like for cup and core. I like a consistent crimp on the slope of the band versus the valley (more consistent crimp tension I believe) which is why I focus more on this instead of a desired jump. But once you have established the crimp point, you also have an ogive measurement to double check for crimp point on band.

YMMV!
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if I follow this correct its what I do with the other hammer calibers I load. Ive so far haven't found any accuracy difference in different seating depts, I just pick a PDR valley to crimp to and dbl check I'm not jamming the lands. I would prefer not to be closer than .020" to the lands IMO.

I like a consistent crimp on the slope of the band versus the valley (more consistent crimp tension I believe)
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Same, this is why I tested the 3.470" coal.... if you look closely at it (vs. the 3.450") its closer to the slope of the band for crimping, plus if the smith throats the freebore +.020" to this it does give me more wiggle room to optimise crimping location if needed. Im deciding between these two seating depths.
 
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What I love about Hammer bullets and the beauty of Butterbeans crimp system is, even a maroon like me can have success.

I guess you can call me a valley boy, because I load in the valley. Now of course, this is all user interpreted. Let me splain. First off, I use a very Stout crimp, normally 1/2 FCD. When I first set up to crimp in the valley, what I'm looking for is once the bullet is crimped, is .002 shrinkage of the cartridge overall length. I don't always get 2 and I'll live with
1, but that's what I'm striving for. When this happens, it tells me that I'm putting positive pressure on the bullet holding it down in the case and this pressure ensures a delay in release per se. Creating the extremely low SDs that we've come to love shooting with hammers. I don't get some of the bug hole groups that a lot get here but I'm not shooting that far. On the other hand I've got some loads that shoot lights out with a 1/2 FCD.

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This wasn't posted to step on anybody's toes or reloading procedures, this is simply just how I do it and if it's wrong, I just do it wrong each and every time. This place is super, y'all are super and all we want is everybody to have success.

💥🚀🔨☠️
🐌
 
Im pretty limited on my experience here but I honestly haven't seen any differences in group or velocity crimping Hammers. The only reason I crimp my Hammers are the ones for my AR15s for preventing inertia when feeding... I saw no group difference with 1/8t, 1/4t and 3/8t crimps. My lever gun I dont crimp and it holds fine. My 280ai I do crimp but only cause I read in here to start crimping when I developed that load but saw no difference in the ones I didnt crimp... regardless I let that crimp stay since I went there.
Not certain if I will crimp for this new 25-06ai... I go back and forth. I do choose my seating depths in case I need to crimp...

Open to being convinced.
 
Koda said:
left a message with my smith.
Working on seating a dummy round...

Does anyone have any guidance on where to seat the bullet for optimal velocity?
Seems like at some point this one can be seated too far out. Im thinking of seating to the middle drive valley (left) seems reasonable? Opinions?
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Left for sure

In my experience, running 0.020 off the lands, you’re definitely going to give up some velocity, maybe 100 fps or more. YMMV.

For optimal velocity, the further away from the lands, the harder you can push them (but you’re losing case capacity as you go further back, so if you’re chasing speed you need to think about faster powders). There is a point of diminishing returns where groups and/or ES get erratic when you go too far back, but I’ve loaded up to 0.130 off the lands with great accuracy and velocity.

Most of the Hammers I’ve tested have been easy to get to MOA, but with a little work on optimal charge weight and seating depth testing you can get them to 1/2 or 1/4 MOA. Sometimes better.

Most of my loads end up being crimped just before or somewhere in the 2nd valley and from 0.040 to 0.130 off the lands to get sub 1/2 MOA. Here’s some examples:

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Left to right, 300 WM with 178 AH, 300 PRC with 163 HHT, 300 PRC with 214 HH.

However, I recent loaded the 118 HHT in my 7 Max and it preferred more jump, seated and crimped into the middle of the first valley.
 
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What I love about reloading is there are so many options to get to the same place! "Not wrong, not right, just how I do it" is so true for all of us! Where this goes south is when someone gets insulted over their methodology. What I love about HT, is how willing everyone is to share along with no baggage attached.

Love this place!
 
Dropping it off tomorrow, free of charge.
Ive never had a custom rifle built before so if there is any last words of caution or advice Im all ears. Gonna ask for the optimal freebore for the 127gn HHT.

Left is current freebore with .040" jump to lands with a max saami coal, right is what I think it optimal and will bring that dummy round with me to give to him. Noticable difference in case volume,, less pressure and more velocity on the right.

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Muddyboots said:
IMO, The one aspect of added freebore is it does open up the possibility of using powders with the increased case capacity that would not be considered before. It is fun time now thinking of possibilities. How many different ladders can I run?
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interesting, I dont know anything about that and just assuming usual 25-06 powders would be idea. I have plenty of IMR4831, Ramshot Magnum and some H4350 on hand. Was thinking of starting with one of those.

also will run a 117gnAH ladder too, just really curious what kind of velocity I can get with those as well.
 
Muddyboots said:
You can now manage case % capacity to your advantage with additional powders that take up space. For example, powders that did not pressure out due to lack of case capacity might be back on table with increased case capacity thus more velocity.
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Interesting, I think then thats whats happening with my 6.5 Grendel... Its maxed out compressed but no pressure signs at all. So then my powder is less than ideal for that load but -if- I had more room that powder becomes a more viable option?
 
gltaylor said:
Famous last words! Ha!
I bet you get bit by the "bug". We usually do.....especially since this one will be special!
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This one is certainly special, my late Father originally purchased this rifle years ago and was always proud when I took game with it.
All I want is 1 Hammer handload for my hunting rifles. I might play with 2 loads for this one as I included the 117gn Absolute Hammer sample pack in my last order. But Id rather practice shooting positions and I want to start predator hunting where I hunt and also get back into my other hobbies like backcountry skiing, fly fishing, mt biking plus family time. Load dev takes away from these.
 
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