Idea for a .308 sub bullet.

S

Snox801

Hammer Time Executive member
So I want to continue my support and love of hammers. But I’ve found myself in love with my sub sonic bolt action 300blk for all my under 100 yards deer hunting. Mainly cause nobody needs to know I shot. Especially the lady that lets me hunt on her land near her house. But I’ve been running the 101 gr at super speeds because I was getting very weird performance out of the sub x190.
So my idea would be the 203gr hht, for the bigger hollow point and tip for feeding. Then only added marching would be to cut a drive band right at the base of the hollow point similar to the rings already cut. This should allow it to shed much much easier when the tip is forced back.
Same bullet just one more groove cut.
 
I've wondered about how hammers would perform at subsonic impact velocities. What twist barrel do you have? The 308 203 HHT needs a 9 twist. And I might even think I'd want faster than that for some insurance against a baffle strike at subsonic muzzle velocities. I've also thought about having the hollow point go all the way down leaving only a mm or 2 of shank.
 
DiscoSteve said:
I've wondered about how hammers would perform at subsonic impact velocities. What twist barrel do you have? The 308 203 HHT needs a 9 twist. And I might even think I'd want faster than that for some insurance against a baffle strike at subsonic muzzle velocities. I've also thought about having the hollow point go all the way down leaving only a mm or 2 of shank.
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I have a 1/8 twist.
 
Maybe drill the hollow point on the 199 shock hammer a little larger🤔

It's hard to make these things inaccurate they want to shoot little groups.
 
I do wonder if a super fast rate of twist would help facilitate terminal performance at subsonic speeds?

Like maybe the 166gr Shock Hammer in a 1:8” twist barrel? Spin it hard and use centrifugal force to open it?
 
Gday snox
A interesting concept that may work 🤷‍♂️


Disco on some testing I finished last year for a company/organisation I tested a couple older styles of pills ( non hammer & hammer & the fox bullet was one that gave me the idea of what your talking about if I’m correct on my assumptions & I basically applied that to the hammer & presto got the pill they needed & more than likely we will never see that pill on the market as it’s a extremely specialist/specialised pill

Now from those results I’d say you’ll need a shank of no more than 2 mm but I was working with 375 so maybe a 3 might work but I’d say a 1.5 maybe better but even ticking deeper I’m working on a true solid that potentially will be a better brush solid than already exists
So combining that with a normal process of a shedding mono


I’m still in the position from what I’ve seen on sub loads is a big flat meplat would be the best ( a ballistic projectile I like there meplats on a mushroom mono so I would like to see retained petals not shed @ these velocities
But that is only off what I’ve seen in years gone by & the shed maybe better 🤷‍♂️
Only one way to find out

Choprzrul I like his idea as a 150 ish on that twist drilled to a deadblow or touch deeper I’d think would still open yet retain petals
Not so sure on a tip though as that velocity I don’t know if it would slide in due to enough impact pressure

Got to run I’ll come back ron & break down better as heads racing on thoughts & I can’t type quick enough lol
Cheers
 
jrebel said:
If your shots are 100 yards and less….load the 203 HHT and whack’m in the heads. DRT regardless of bullet performance.
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Problem with that is subs arc like a rainbow so unless you are perfect with you dope at all
Distance a 20-25 yards mid call can lead to very slow and painful death. I prefer the largest margin of error. Honestly a non expanding.308 in the lungs will kill it but I can’t imagine cutting one more groove would be very tough to sell a few more bullets. Even if not profitable it’s still a good business idea. Never give the customers a reason to go looking. They may replace other bullets with those from the competition. Like cutting edge.
 
jrebel said:
If your shots are 100 yards and less….load the 203 HHT and whack’m in the heads. DRT regardless of bullet performance.
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Teeny tiny sample size of fooling around with subsonic hunting bullets, but I am of the opinion that this is the way.
I’ll add the 203HHT to my FAFO wishlist…which is becoming untenably long!
 
Fellas

Years ago I played with the predecessor to the blackout which was called the 300 whisper I had abysmal results with cup and core hollow points I finally went to a 209 gr cast bullet that I put my own hollow points in. problem was the Animals still ran a long way so I abandoned that cartridge. that all being said. I wish I still had that rifle though.

Impacts at sub 1000 ft are going to be common for this rig neither of the two pills the 199 shock hammer or the 203hht are designed for anything near that. I like Farlegs idea of retaining the pedals but shank momentum is Paramount. That's why I feel anything smaller than these two would not perform adequately. The hollow points I feel should be opened up I think the 199 would be easier to modify on your bench since it already starts with a larger hole I also feel pouring melted pure beeswax into the hollow points would help in Hydraulics immensely at least you wouldn't lose an inch of penetration before it was full.

jm2cw

I'll go back in my hole. Sorry for no proofread nor punctuation not that I use it correctly anyway 😖

If drilling the holes out is an option for you and you're not sure how to do it on your bench, you can PM me and we'll swap phone numbers. I've modified these hammers for years and they're stupid accurate after you're done too it's really easy.

Joe
 
I agree with Joe on this. I believe a complete hp and nose design would be needed to get these hammers to open at such low velocities. If you look at other copper subsonic designs, you’ll see pretty large, chamfered hp’s and relief cuts as well.

I also believe this is where kenetic energy plays a big roll and the heavy pills will win regarding reliably expanding. It takes energy or momentum, however you want to look at it, to open the nose, expand the petals and retain or shed petals. I ran some quick numbers for my own curiosity.

IMG_2056.jpeg
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There’s a reason hammers have a minimum velocity, well above subsonic speeds, for reliable expansion.

Kneedeep
 
This is interesting discussion cause I lean more the 100 Shock Hammer with larger HP to shed petals easier subsonic. It is designed for M14/30 carbine so maybe better designed for less velocity to perform.

"This Shock Hammer was designed for the smaller m14 / 30 carbine rifles or those who want to run a nice high velocity in standard 30 calibers without the high recoil. "

Kinetic energy is prob irrelevant versus having better "shredder" allowing shank to be released for penetration. The heavier bullet may not shed petals as easy as the lighter pill. I would be looking for petal damage versus kinetic energy typically associated with bullet performance.

I happen to discuss something similar this morning with @Farleg and hope he can chime in on this.
 
Starting out at freight train velocities, I'm going to stick with the big payload. Normally I'm a zoomy moped kind of guy but not on this one.

Joe
 
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