Farleg
Hammer Time Executive member
Gday
Back again & been ticking on this & here’s my thoughts but be more than happy to see someone put some more thoughts & then into practice
So
Subsonic velocitity impacts I struggle with & in general low velocities regardless of pill design
Based off my previous results from 45-70 & 308 mainly plus watching the old whisper days a few mates went down the road of
First suppressors if running fillars due to case capacity I hated the maintenance issues
Trajectory sucked as 10 yards can mean a hit or miss once got out a touch
Let’s look @ shedding monos first & the ceb laser is the best I can compare
So even though slightly higher than we are wanting for this situation for snox it will only get worse imo so @1200 on the whole they will shed petals yet preformance the best I can call this on killing efficiency is $hit real $hit & basically you may has well shoot a solid as it’s the worst low velocity impacts I’ve seen
This is from a couple of fronts
1st the velocity impact dosent crush enough tissue
2nd meplat shape ( it’s more rounded /jagged )
3rd the petals are going that slow they do basically Jack $hit
Move to a solid with good flat meplat ( or cup point as tissue is displaced differently eg hydro ) & you get better killing than the shedding & more importantly more consistent killing although they will all basically run
So now that is where I would go if only those 2 options existed but the better was the following
Cast pills of the softest lead I could find that created a a big mushroom pill that basically used all its length in the mushroom & no shank left as it was all displaced sideways in the mushroom
Now had to be careful not to get to much velocity as things then went the other way on killing efficiency ( if you can call it that ) & the other systems took back over
So on the above I like the thought of a mushroom pill not a shedding or blunt nose & why I thought the handgun users would be better on this process not shedding but as usual until a full line of testing would be carried out no one really knows but historically it doesn’t go well for the shedding
Now where does hammers fit here
To me you see around the 1400 with 30 cal of petals still staying attached on a pretty regular basis so why not use that to the subsonic velocity advantage of what’s previously shown the best results
Now we have twist that has shown the rpm helps us in operating in a better manner when things get hard to open so snox 8 twist is a plus we can use to our benefit if we wish
So to me the 180/200 ish weight is out
Now let’s take that 100 gr SH as that on paper due to the rpm but @ that weight it’s going to struggle a bit as not enough weight overall as if it shed petals we are left with a little shank that is already running on empty & fails to penetrate ( I used this pill & yes it kills but give me the 101blackout everyday yet I’m not a fan of that either but in a BO platform it will be good ) now the petals if shed are that small & no velocity they stop pretty darn quickly as no vacuum to pull them along in the bubble or free ride
Now if petals did stay attached the depth of that hp will not overall give a very big mushroom
So that’s also out for me
Leaves us in that 150 ish pill weight & to me your still going to need tinker as the 154hht is where I’d look first & use a 3mm drill & go to work but not use the tip as that will inhibit what we want @ these velocities
You probably should shoot the non tipped original into media @ those impact velocity for a base to work off first then tinker as the form of this pill will tell what needs to occur to get the results we seek
You’ve also got rpm that will help start the process & enough total weight to give us some good penetration
Now if it’s shedding one wants your going to have to tinker with the pills we have now & relieving cuts or broaching is needed as the alloy just want do what we want down @ those velocities & also by drilling nearly all the way to the base you may get multiple pieces going in all directions but no consistency on path & once again rpm will help that occur but also the 200 ish pill weight would give pretty big petals & broached correctly would be worthy of consideration
really I have no idea & stopped the subsonic route years ago but I see your predicament snox & commend you on trying to get a better outcome & wish you luck
On water jugs for low velocity impact just be very careful of this as a testing media as water is not a good indicator on low resistance impact /velocity
& I’m not sold on gel either as a between the rib shot in the chest cavity @ low velocity shows us why the water & gel is not applicable to this shot but on the shoulder meat they are closer
Previously I used a small piece of meat in front of a hay bale as a indication of the low impact resistance results to be expected , today I’ve found my Bennett wallaby is the best I’ve seen as they run
Looking @ you guys the yote seems a good one to study this for comparisons
Cheers
Back again & been ticking on this & here’s my thoughts but be more than happy to see someone put some more thoughts & then into practice
So
Subsonic velocitity impacts I struggle with & in general low velocities regardless of pill design
Based off my previous results from 45-70 & 308 mainly plus watching the old whisper days a few mates went down the road of
First suppressors if running fillars due to case capacity I hated the maintenance issues
Trajectory sucked as 10 yards can mean a hit or miss once got out a touch
Let’s look @ shedding monos first & the ceb laser is the best I can compare
So even though slightly higher than we are wanting for this situation for snox it will only get worse imo so @1200 on the whole they will shed petals yet preformance the best I can call this on killing efficiency is $hit real $hit & basically you may has well shoot a solid as it’s the worst low velocity impacts I’ve seen
This is from a couple of fronts
1st the velocity impact dosent crush enough tissue
2nd meplat shape ( it’s more rounded /jagged )
3rd the petals are going that slow they do basically Jack $hit
Move to a solid with good flat meplat ( or cup point as tissue is displaced differently eg hydro ) & you get better killing than the shedding & more importantly more consistent killing although they will all basically run
So now that is where I would go if only those 2 options existed but the better was the following
Cast pills of the softest lead I could find that created a a big mushroom pill that basically used all its length in the mushroom & no shank left as it was all displaced sideways in the mushroom
Now had to be careful not to get to much velocity as things then went the other way on killing efficiency ( if you can call it that ) & the other systems took back over
So on the above I like the thought of a mushroom pill not a shedding or blunt nose & why I thought the handgun users would be better on this process not shedding but as usual until a full line of testing would be carried out no one really knows but historically it doesn’t go well for the shedding
Now where does hammers fit here
To me you see around the 1400 with 30 cal of petals still staying attached on a pretty regular basis so why not use that to the subsonic velocity advantage of what’s previously shown the best results
Now we have twist that has shown the rpm helps us in operating in a better manner when things get hard to open so snox 8 twist is a plus we can use to our benefit if we wish
So to me the 180/200 ish weight is out
Now let’s take that 100 gr SH as that on paper due to the rpm but @ that weight it’s going to struggle a bit as not enough weight overall as if it shed petals we are left with a little shank that is already running on empty & fails to penetrate ( I used this pill & yes it kills but give me the 101blackout everyday yet I’m not a fan of that either but in a BO platform it will be good ) now the petals if shed are that small & no velocity they stop pretty darn quickly as no vacuum to pull them along in the bubble or free ride
Now if petals did stay attached the depth of that hp will not overall give a very big mushroom
So that’s also out for me
Leaves us in that 150 ish pill weight & to me your still going to need tinker as the 154hht is where I’d look first & use a 3mm drill & go to work but not use the tip as that will inhibit what we want @ these velocities
You probably should shoot the non tipped original into media @ those impact velocity for a base to work off first then tinker as the form of this pill will tell what needs to occur to get the results we seek
You’ve also got rpm that will help start the process & enough total weight to give us some good penetration
Now if it’s shedding one wants your going to have to tinker with the pills we have now & relieving cuts or broaching is needed as the alloy just want do what we want down @ those velocities & also by drilling nearly all the way to the base you may get multiple pieces going in all directions but no consistency on path & once again rpm will help that occur but also the 200 ish pill weight would give pretty big petals & broached correctly would be worthy of consideration
really I have no idea & stopped the subsonic route years ago but I see your predicament snox & commend you on trying to get a better outcome & wish you luck
On water jugs for low velocity impact just be very careful of this as a testing media as water is not a good indicator on low resistance impact /velocity
& I’m not sold on gel either as a between the rib shot in the chest cavity @ low velocity shows us why the water & gel is not applicable to this shot but on the shoulder meat they are closer
Previously I used a small piece of meat in front of a hay bale as a indication of the low impact resistance results to be expected , today I’ve found my Bennett wallaby is the best I’ve seen as they run
Looking @ you guys the yote seems a good one to study this for comparisons
Cheers
