New rifle, first round set up

@19dsniper ,

Sorry you're having so much trouble. This is all highly irregular?
Hopefully we're overlooking something simple?
Too many people have followed your general path with much more favorable and faster results?
Post # 42 - most people do not go above 1/2 crimp. Most also go up in 1/2 to 1 gr increments looking for pressure.
On the way up to pressure, it is not uncommon to shoot a 6-10 shot group that does not go over about 1.5 inches for the total group. Some do this well, some don't.
When looking for the best group, adjust powder to get to the best group you can find. Changing crimp (if you do this) is a final step for fine-tuning grouping. "Fine-tuning" means going from .80-1.0 groups to .5ish groups. Change crimp in 1/8 steps (my personal practice).
Post #46 - .002 neck tension should be fine. Most start at .002-.003. At about .004 you can start crushing necks/shoulders (my experience at least).
Post #50 - Hammers are not particularly sensitive to jump, but .200 is a bunch! Most start at .020 and go out from there. In my personal cartridges (several), jumps range from .010 to over .150. Jumps are usually predicated by magazine length. Get a loaded cartridge that feeds reliably and shoot it. Just be sure that you stay away from engaging or touching the lands. If that doesn't work, (rare) then play with seating depth (go further away/deeper into the case).
Post #55 - It is generally best to crimp in a PDR valley - not on a shoulder (if you can). Crimping on a shoulder opens up the possibility of inconsistent bullet seating and bullet movement. Post #62 looks very good.
Post #65 - Just me, but I don't adjust scope settings while shooting for pressure. Let the gun show you what it will shoot as the charge goes up. It may move some/it may not. If you keep changing the scope settings you can confuse yourself very quickly and thoroughly.
Post #88 - One of the first steps in developing a load is to find the Ogive to Base measurement for your barrel with the bullet you are testing. Data given in the load sheets is for general information only. You need to measure your throat in your barrel and determine where your bullet touches the lands. Go about .020 off of that (further away) to start testing. What worked in someone else's rifle may or may not work at all in your rifle! It may even be dangerous.

The only thing I didn't see is that you verified the twist rate of your barrel. It is not uncommon for a barrel to not quite be twisted as marked on the barrel. The 125HHTs require a 1-8" twist as you know.

Lastly, and I hope this is not the case, some barrels just don't like some bullets. I've shot Hammers in 8 rifles and about 18 calibers so far. So far I've found 2 that a particular barrel would not shoot. Period. Can't tell you why. The same barrels shot other weight Hammers superbly? Hope you weren't that unlucky on your first try.
 
@19dsniper ,

Sorry you're having so much trouble. This is all highly irregular?
Hopefully we're overlooking something simple?
Too many people have followed your general path with much more favorable and faster results?
Post # 42 - most people do not go above 1/2 crimp. Most also go up in 1/2 to 1 gr increments looking for pressure.
On the way up to pressure, it is not uncommon to shoot a 6-10 shot group that does not go over about 1.5 inches for the total group. Some do this well, some don't.
When looking for the best group, adjust powder to get to the best group you can find. Changing crimp (if you do this) is a final step for fine-tuning grouping. "Fine-tuning" means going from .80-1.0 groups to .5ish groups. Change crimp in 1/8 steps (my personal practice).
Post #46 - .002 neck tension should be fine. Most start at .002-.003. At about .004 you can start crushing necks/shoulders (my experience at least).
Post #50 - Hammers are not particularly sensitive to jump, but .200 is a bunch! Most start at .020 and go out from there. In my personal cartridges (several), jumps range from .010 to over .150. Jumps are usually predicated by magazine length. Get a loaded cartridge that feeds reliably and shoot it. Just be sure that you stay away from engaging or touching the lands. If that doesn't work, (rare) then play with seating depth (go further away/deeper into the case).
Post #55 - It is generally best to crimp in a PDR valley - not on a shoulder (if you can). Crimping on a shoulder opens up the possibility of inconsistent bullet seating and bullet movement. Post #62 looks very good.
Post #65 - Just me, but I don't adjust scope settings while shooting for pressure. Let the gun show you what it will shoot as the charge goes up. It may move some/it may not. If you keep changing the scope settings you can confuse yourself very quickly and thoroughly.
Post #88 - One of the first steps in developing a load is to find the Ogive to Base measurement for your barrel with the bullet you are testing. Data given in the load sheets is for general information only. You need to measure your throat in your barrel and determine where your bullet touches the lands. Go about .020 off of that (further away) to start testing. What worked in someone else's rifle may or may not work at all in your rifle! It may even be dangerous.

The only thing I didn't see is that you verified the twist rate of your barrel. It is not uncommon for a barrel to not quite be twisted as marked on the barrel. The 125HHTs require a 1-8" twist as you know.

Lastly, and I hope this is not the case, some barrels just don't like some bullets. I've shot Hammers in 8 rifles and about 18 calibers so far. So far I've found 2 that a particular barrel would not shoot. Period. Can't tell you why. The same barrels shot other weight Hammers superbly? Hope you weren't that unlucky on your first try.
First off, thank you very much for taking the time to not only type all that up, but reference it as well. I appreciate that you did that.

Once I get back I will try again with my 20 or so remaining rounds to start over again and see what happens with your pointers above.

I really hope it's something simple. I have measured that distance to give, just don't remember if I put it in here or not. I thought I did. I am restricted by mag length and where the PDR bands sit. If I go by length alone I can not crimp on a pdr band. I have to make it shorter to still fit the mag and be in a valley. I believe I may be able to crimp at the second pdr band instead of the first though, and I will give that a try.

Thank you for the help!
 
Scout

Yeah this bums me out for you bad. Not sure if you've chased it down but there's a thread "what have I learned"

I absolutely wasted the first two boxes of hundreds that I shot and then it clicked you'll get it it's just unfortunately that you weren't able to get it figured out before this weekend's hunt that bums me out for you also.

George is special he's a very large part of what makes hammer time so great the people here are phenomenal you will not be left hanging or in a Hole by yourself we promise.

No jokes today.

Good luck my friend.

Joe
 
The only piece we've not chased down is forward tension on your forearm. With a "noodle" barrel, this can be a real thing.
I had a 270 Wby Mag with a skinny barrel that would NOT shoot.
I free floated the barrel. No luck. Added more and more front pressure. Finally got it to shoot 1.5-2" and gave up. It went down the road.
Another wish for good luck on your hunt & with your rifle
 
The Howa Super Lite is interesting rifle but reading Guns America they acknowledged some of the exact same issues with accuracy due to how light, thin barrel and thin stock for-end. One comment was how critical the placement on bench rest was along with how hard or soft the rest can affect accuracy. Twist was stated to be 1:8 as well.


Some excerpts:
"Although ultralight rifles aren’t always known for producing tack-driving accuracy, the Super Lite comes with a sub-MOA accuracy guarantee. According to Howa, this sort of accuracy is possible in the Super Lite because Howa installs barrels to meet stringent headspace specifications, and ensures bolt faces are true and square to the chamber. Still, rifles this light can be difficult for many people to shoot accurately, and I’ve found that I usually have to modify my technique to get the best results on the bench."

"Accuracy testing with four loads produced mixed results. I wasn’t that impressed with the first couple of loads, which grouped bullets into clusters measuring an inch and a half to two inches. Perhaps the rifle just needed a little time to settle down – or maybe I did. In any event, things changed dramatically when I started shooting groups with Hornady’s Superformance 129-grain SST load, which produced average three-shot groups measuring just 0.53 inches and the best group of 0.36 inches. The rifle seemed to prefer lighter, faster bullets over heavier, slower ones, but Winchester’s 140-grain match load also performed well, turning in 0.99-inch average groups and a 0.61-inch best group. Notably, all testing was done with a nearly full-value wind blowing 7-12 mph. That made me appreciate the results even more since the types of places I would most likely carry this rifle aren’t always noted for calm weather or windless days."

Groups did tend to open up a bit as the relatively thin barrel heated up, but that’s to be expected. This is not a rifle designed for high-volume shooting. It’s built to help you get to the top of a mountain and make your shot count. The magazine holds only three rounds, but under most hunting circumstances, if you haven’t gotten the job done by the third or fourth round, you’re unlikely to make it happen with a fifth.
As noted, rifles this light can be more difficult for people to shoot well. That’s partly because of increased recoil and partly because the effects of inconsistent shooting technique are magnified with such light rifles. The cure for both situations is to practice."


The rifle is certainly capable. The one comment that stood out was lighter bullet shot best aka 120SST so maybe dropping down in bullet weight plus evaluation on how rifle is on bench rest for consistency may help. It's so light, the slightest "off" anywhere will be magnified. Obviously it heats up extremely fast so increase down time between shots and or use a barrel cooler to help. A simple live bait bucket aerator pump with tygon tubing does help quite a bit plus dirt cheap. Good luck!
 
@19dsniper I quickly read this thread. Sucks you’re having these struggles.

As gltaylor mentioned, occasionally a barrel just doesn’t like a particular pill. I gave up trying to get the 124HH to group out of my .308. Every other bullet in every other rifle I have as grouped as well as I can shoot.

If you want to try the 117SH after you return to see if it would work better for next year, I’d be happy to send you a few on my dime so you can FAFO.

Hope your hunt goes well. Let us know, please!
 
I know that now that I am in my 7th decade, weight does make a difference. I'm liking the Proof Research Carbon barrel on the Savage 110 ultralight. I'm finding that it isn't fussy about the Hammer bullets that I have sent down the bore! It isn't flat hunting in Idaho.
 
I know that now that I am in my 7th decade, weight does make a difference. I'm liking the Proof Research Carbon barrel on the Savage 110 ultralight. I'm finding that it isn't fussy about the Hammer bullets that I have sent down the bore! It isn't flat hunting in Idaho.
My brother is about to buy one of these in a 6.5 PRC. 5 1/2 lbs.
 

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My brother is about to buy one of these in a 6.5 PRC. 5 1/2 lbs.
Nice! I am limited because I am left handed and do enjoy having a left handed gun. I'm not so sure I would want to lose 4 inches of barrel length either. At the price of the gun, one can make up the extra weight with a Swarovski light weight scope. Right now I have a light weight Leopold scope on my Savage Ultralight in 300 WSM. Total weight fully loaded is 7.6 pounds. If he puts a 2.5 pound scope on there he will be up to 8 pounds in a flash! I'm sure he is going to enjoy his new gun!
 
Nice! I am limited because I am left handed and do enjoy having a left handed gun. I'm not so sure I would want to lose 4 inches of barrel length either. At the price of the gun, one can make up the extra weight with a Swarovski light weight scope. Right now I have a light weight Leopold scope on my Savage Ultralight in 300 WSM. Total weight fully loaded is 7.6 pounds. If he puts a 2.5 pound scope on there he will be up to 8 pounds in a flash! I'm sure he is going to enjoy his new gun!
Yeah. I think he’s going with a Trijicon that weighs 26 oz. He’s not too keen on the 20 inch barrel, but it’s a savage, so if we can’t get velocity he’s happy with, he’ll order another Proof pre-fit in 24”.
 
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