Straighwall Cartridges for Muzzleloader Season - What are your thoughts.

Schmo

Schmo

Hammer Time Executive member
Saw recently on an update from the Arkansas Game & Fish Commission that they are considering adding the use of straight wall centerfire cartridges during our muzzleloader season here. Just thought I’d like to hear you guys chime in with your two cents. I know many states are banning scopes, red dots, and have very specific rules for bullet types to be used. I completely understand that it’s to try to take it back to being a primitive weapon, and not have the advantages of a rifle. However, if they pass it, I’ll probably have some semblance of a .350 Legend or similar to hunt the season with. Fire away with your thoughts!
 
Nope, I listened to a conversation last weekend from a couple old time buck-skinners (rendezvous participants) about this topic. I’m not as extreme as they are, but muzzle loader should be percussion/flint/inline, loose powder/pellet, projectile and open sights (medical waiver exception).

A primitive hunt should stay (mostly) primitive. I don’t blame people for gaming the system, but sometimes the spirit needs to be observed.

BTW the two buck-skinners were advocating flint lock, loose powder, iron sights, and patched round ball only.
 
Should we have to cast our own round balls or make the powder too? I get that the line has to be drawn somewhere but there is always someone who does it “harder”. I shoot a percussion that I built out of a kit as a kid. Loose powder, patched round ball and iron sights.

Hell maybe even the kit rifle is too much technology. 🤣
 
Add too it the JOY of Lead Free projectiles. 😵‍💫 I’m doing good to try and met these regulations as it is. I’m doing load development for .429 Hammers, 3f,Sabot, and Musket Cap// #11s.

This is with NO guarantee of a tag for a muzzle loader hunt.
 
NO!
Michigan is doing this for last couple years and really screwed up the total experience of hunting with a muzzleloader. If an agency needs more deer killed, increase tags in standard firearm season, heck reduce tag costs. increase season lengths. How about allowing full firearm use in archery? 🤮

As a geezer, I understand us older hunters may need optical assist in order to shoot a muzzleloader but even this has me questioning why there needs to be a muzzleloader that shoots 500yds with optics, custom bullets and now even with smokeless powder. There are other options with sights such as fiber optics that will help those with vision. Reduction in ability to shoot distances is part of being in primitive season. Accept this very basic concept that was the sole purpose of this season.

I hunted last year with my first muzzleloader, 54 Hawkens with 425gr Hornady Great Plains conical, 3F Pyrodex and #11 caps. Have rear Williams peep with front globe. As I sat there holding it, I realized how much I missed hunting with it and will be pulling it out more often for sure. I stumbled into a 250 tin of RWS 11 caps at a LGS about month ago and grabbed them! Harder to find than RL26!!!

I truly have mixed emotions on whether this season needs to revert back to more primitive requirements when hunter sustainability is going down.

Part of the discussion was not everyone has a muzzleloader. Really? Another everybody gets a trophy mentality?

This is no different than xbow in archery. Is archery just recurve or longbow? No mechanical assist? 85% let off compounds? Range finders?

Me? Keep seasons separated by defined weapon. Manage deer herd through kill management within each season. Even add earn an additional buck tag through doe kills.

Seriously, what the heck has happened to our wildlife agencies? IMO, Michigan is completely out of control in this regard. Wildlife management is a another discussion within itself.
 
My take on this...Meat tastes the same out of the freezer regardless what or how I harvest it. I'm always going to go with the best methods and equipment to ensure that meat gets in the freezer. I am no purist, romanticist, nor do I feel the need to harvest game with primitive means over modern to brag about the feat. Animals deserve a clean death and not linger with mistakes from someone playing Davy Crocket or Daniel Boone.

My vote is a straight walled cartridge loaded with a Hammer Bullet shot out of an accurate gun with a good scope. Boom!
 
What he said☝️

I look forward to muzeloader season every year. I tried playing the black powder game, even in my 45-70s. IMO, you can keep that crap!!! That being said, if we're gonna put restrictions on muzzleloaders, I feel the same should be considered for crossbows. BUT there should be an exception for handicap Hunters. Brad sed a mouth full 👍we owe the animal the quickest and cleanest death. If asked to vote, I would never vote against somebody's idea of how they choose to exercise their second amendment.

I love hunting with my Savage muzzleloader II using 54 grains of IMR4198 shooting a 300 grain Thompson Center shock wave at a modest muzzle velocity of 1900 feet per second. Farthest shot taken was three years ago on a cull buck at 185 yards. (most are under 75) Had to aim 10 in over his back. After being introduced to hammers, tell me that's not primitive!!!

Just sayin.

I'll go back in my hole now.

Joe
 
joe16 said:
What he said☝️

I look forward to muzeloader season every year. I tried playing the black powder game, even in my 45-70s. IMO, you can keep that crap!!! That being said, if we're gonna put restrictions on muzzleloaders, I feel the same should be considered for crossbows. BUT there should be an exception for handicap Hunters. Brad sed a mouth full 👍we owe the animal the quickest and cleanest death. If asked to vote, I would never vote against somebody's idea of how they choose to exercise their second amendment.

I love hunting with my Savage muzzleloader II using 54 grains of IMR4198 shooting a 300 grain Thompson Center shock wave at a modest muzzle velocity of 1900 feet per second. Farthest shot taken was three years ago on a cull buck at 185 yards. (most are under 75) Had to aim 10 in over his back. After being introduced to hammers, tell me that's not primitive!!!

Just sayin.

I'll go back in my hole now.

Joe
Click to expand...
When I am restricted to a muzzleloader, it's my T/C Encore Pro Hunter, sending 290gr Barnes T-EZ with Blackhorn 209 powder out to 125yds. In fact, I opt for this rifle over shotgun slug for all firearm seasons where rifle is restricted. Terminal and precision performance is top notch. 45-70 Hammer would be the one by which to contend in a straight wall!
 
This is exactly the discussion I hoped would happen. I’m not offended by anyone’s comments. My current setup is a cheap CVA Buckhorn inline. Nothing wrong with it. I’ve taken deer with it. I do love muzzleloader hunting. But I’m with a couple of these other guys. I like to use whatever gives me the best odds of filling the freezer. I eat what I shoot, or if I’m not going to eat it, it gets donated to those who will.

I am starting to hunt Montana more than my own state, due to loss of private land access. I’ve also got tired of sitting in a tree stand. That being said, I’m not interested in applying for western archery or muzzleloader. As many know, non resident tags are expensive! And I’m not comfortable taking a bow or muzzleloader out west where I’ve laid out a considerable chunk of money to even hunt. I need to go with the best equipment I have to maximize my odds.
 
Schmo

If you're legally allowed to use it where you hunt and you have the buckhorn breach plug for that rifle, you can use imr-4198 instead. Mine is safely locked away in the safe loaded from last year😳😳 minus the primer. I just put a piece of masking a tape across the stock that says "loaded", so Murphy doesn't kick my butt. Every year I struggle with should I just shoot it at an animal and never do and I always confirm that I've just wasted a shot. I also feel the black powder substitutes are crap. That being said the 209 buckhorn powder is the most accurate substitute that I've seen (it's still dirty)

Just me
 
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@joe16, I did not know that about the IMR. I’d have to check and see if my state would allow it. Also, I’m not sure if they make a Blackhorn breech plug for mine since it’s the cheapest one CVA makes.
 
Ok, maybe I missed the intent of the post. I thought it was to allow smokeless straight wall rifle a standard firearm to one used in muzzleloader season? If that is correct, do away with all weapon regulated seasons and let the hunter choose. There has to be certain boundaries on weapons for a designated seasonal, otherwise why have specific weapon seasons?

It's called muzzleloader (load from muzzle) for a reason to restrict and promote these types of primitive weapons. Notice I did not say firearm which it is not by Federal Law. So if centerfire rifles are allowed, their Federal Law definition as a firearm is in 100% conflict of the designed intent of primitive weapon muzzleloading seasons.

If the wildlife agency wants to increase deer kill, increase the length of firearm season and not infringe on muzzleloader season.
 
Muddy,
You didn’t miss anything. You are correct in what you’re saying.

Here’s a reason why I would be in favor of this. There is a piece of public land close to where I live. It’s special draw for anything besides archery. Because it is a smaller piece that’s bordered by houses, even during modern gun season the only firearm allowed is muzzleloader. If they passed it, I could actually hunt the season there with a modern rifle. Now I understand this one case is not a reason for it to be allowed for the whole state, but is an actual benefit that I would gain if this passed.
 
Keep in mind though that if you get more options and modern rifles then so does everyone else.= more competition

For me at least, one of the things I enjoy most about muzzleloader season is the quieter woods, I can actually hunt, not just go out and hope the next Yahoo a quarter mile away bumps something my direction. Also seemingly unlike joe I actually enjoy the BP and more traditional guns ( never had a flintlock yet have to remedy that)👉 poking the bear😂

Having said that I also am trying to get a smokeless one together so I can shoot hammers 👍🔨
 
@Schmo , it sound like the area you are wanting to hunt might be similar to one near me. That one is Shotgun Only, hence my carrying some double aught and slugs because of feral hogs. Where I was going with this is that just because the “regular” muzzle loader season changes, that piece of ground might not.
 
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