Testing with handgun calibers?

Crimp grooves are very important in revolvers to prevent the bullet from “jumping” during recoil, in rifles it prevents the bullet from seating deeper and increasing pressure. An uncrimped bullet leaving the seating depth of your case can hang up your cylinder, causing a helluva headache. Handgun loads, particularly revolvers, rely on crimp grooves and OALs.

Seems like I’ve read somewhere that pistol caliber Hammers seat long? Maybe not.
 
This bullet is seated at the crimp grove. It sticks out of the cylinder. There is no way it could function if I tried to seat and crimp on the grove, so I must seat it deep. I am using a Lee taper crimp die which should secure the bullet.

I was planning on running it at 14 grains of N-110, but I’ll stop there. I think the data from Vihtavuori it defiantly hot. With their data for n110 with the 158 XTP, their MIN charge is 13.5 grains of N110. Hornady’s MAX load for the same bullet is 13.1 grains of 110. Definitely need to be careful. I’m only using it it because a friend gave me a 2lb bottle of it for free. So the price was right.
 

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Kmvanderham said:
This bullet is seated at the crimp grove. It sticks out of the cylinder. There is no way it could function if I tried to seat and crimp on the grove, so I must seat it deep. I am using a Lee taper crimp die which should secure the bullet.

I was planning on running it at 14 grains of N-110, but I’ll stop there. I think the data from Vihtavuori it defiantly hot. With their data for n110 with the 158 XTP, their MIN charge is 13.5 grains of N110. Hornady’s MAX load for the same bullet is 13.1 grains of 110. Definitely need to be careful. I’m only using it it because a friend gave me a 2lb bottle of it for free. So the price was right.
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If I’m reading your posts correctly, I wouldn’t use that bullet in that gun. No bullet should sit outside the revolver cylinder when crimped properly - will it even close and rotate? Seating it deeper is going to increase pressure. Crimping grooves are there to hold a bullet in place at pressure.
 
The cylinder will not rotate. I wonder if Colt cylinders are a little short? It measures 1.557”. I guess I’ll have to use the rest of my bullets in 38 special brass, but thats no fun 😒
 
Kind of expensive plinking rounds. You should buy a Contender with .357 Max barrel. You LEGITIMATELY have a need with all those bullets. 🤔

I had a S&W Model 28 with recessed cylinders that wouldn’t handle all bullets, I don’t have a Python but I’m thinking those cylinders may be recessed as well.
 
My plan was to use it as a sidearm while hunting. Being in California, I need to have lead free ammo. Hammers are my go to bullet, I load them in 5 different rifles with awesome results. I’ll just have to use an alternative bullet for my revolver. Thank you very much for your advice and help, it is greatly appreciated!
 
You could always use 38 special brass and load off +p data. That would get you 0.14" shorter and data to match.
 
To update this thread, I edited a couple of my post to show that my Enforcer loads were not yet compressed. When time allows, I'll finish out the ladder and then post all relevant information for the load data sheet. In shorter barrels Enforcer is where it at. Rifle length may benefit from the slightly slower H110 and Lil'gun, but they fill up fast. As always, Use proper load techniques and work up and stay safe!
 
Handgun400 said:
I like the idea of such handgun bullets expanding 30-40% of their diameter. With proper energy they’ll continue to penetrate sufficiently and open a substantial wound channel. So .40 would expand to .56, .452 would expand to .63 etc. Swift has this down nicely with their A Frame.

Prior to Lehigh’s current production there was a bullet known as The Penetrator and its reputation was exactly such. I’ve never used any of Lehigh’s ammo.
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Gday HG400
That’s a interesting comment & may have some merit as I’m going back to my subsonic days but sorry it’s rifles but may have relevance & comparing a 308&45-70

So I tried cast pills along with factory offerings in 308 & then 45-70 I tinkered with massive hp to straight meplat in various sizes

First the 45-70 it’s got the meplat size & I just couldn’t get the hp ones to open reliably so I set up that combo with wad cutters as it was the most reliable killer ( quickest) yet unless you hit cns you could guarantee it was a run & nearly always 50 plus yards if the shot was good

Now the 308 it just didn’t kill as efficiently as the 45-70 regardless of the style of pill I used ( all @ same impacts as the subsonic dictated that )

WELL until I melted down some wheel weights & these ever so soft pills ( I think 200 gr & will get a photo if I still have any left 🤞)
a game changer occurred in that 308 & my 45-70 was sold eventually ( I should have done the 45-70 pills in wheel weights but my circumstances changed & ended up selling all that stuff as I got sick of tracking some critters for hours if I found them ) it was that much difference but on what I needed to think of why & how ( still struggle with handgun velocities majorly)

The 308 would routinely expand to 60 cal but you had to stay off those shoulder joints or it was a mess & needed the bloodhound senses to kick in but in the crease it was effective

So then I thought man do that in higher velocities & 1700-1800 is where that system got to be very unreliable

So I think the mushroom idea has a bit of merit but I just don’t like those velocities down that low then again handgun velocities get me on what they have shown to be able to produce so hmm still a lot to learn

Now why can’t this system work with rifle velocities if we could control that mushroom
Mmmm I do believe it can & does as was proven in a mono out of Africa ( ballistic) as it had around 10/12 petals that would create a flat meplat mushroom of substantial over caliber size ( no void’s between petals ) but it’s issue was where it created that flat mushroom was a small velocity window & if that could potentially be created in the handgun velocities plus a few other characteristics you would have a very effective handgun or subsonic round

The key is those flat meplats & once you get a to rounded meplat all bets are off & terminal performance drops off

Just ticking

So would this system beat a shedding mono
I do think it has potential @ these velocities but you’d need to test that theory
But on what I’ve seen shedding monos are hard to get to work well @ that 1700/1800 below so I’m in the camp of the part I put up above as you handgun hunters this would be your best option basically a good expanding solid

Give you guys something to pester Steve on 😜😜

No proof read got to run
Cheers
 
Farleg said:
Gday HG400
That’s a interesting comment & may have some merit as I’m going back to my subsonic days but sorry it’s rifles but may have relevance & comparing a 308&45-70

So I tried cast pills along with factory offerings in 308 & then 45-70 I tinkered with massive hp to straight meplat in various sizes

First the 45-70 it’s got the meplat size & I just couldn’t get the hp ones to open reliably so I set up that combo with wad cutters as it was the most reliable killer ( quickest) yet unless you hit cns you could guarantee it was a run & nearly always 50 plus yards if the shot was good

Now the 308 it just didn’t kill as efficiently as the 45-70 regardless of the style of pill I used ( all @ same impacts as the subsonic dictated that )

WELL until I melted down some wheel weights & these ever so soft pills ( I think 200 gr & will get a photo if I still have any left 🤞)
a game changer occurred in that 308 & my 45-70 was sold eventually ( I should have done the 45-70 pills in wheel weights but my circumstances changed & ended up selling all that stuff as I got sick of tracking some critters for hours if I found them ) it was that much difference but on what I needed to think of why & how ( still struggle with handgun velocities majorly)

The 308 would routinely expand to 60 cal but you had to stay off those shoulder joints or it was a mess & needed the bloodhound senses to kick in but in the crease it was effective

So then I thought man do that in higher velocities & 1700-1800 is where that system got to be very unreliable

So I think the mushroom idea has a bit of merit but I just don’t like those velocities down that low then again handgun velocities get me on what they have shown to be able to produce so hmm still a lot to learn

Now why can’t this system work with rifle velocities if we could control that mushroom
Mmmm I do believe it can & does as was proven in a mono out of Africa ( ballistic) as it had around 10/12 petals that would create a flat meplat mushroom of substantial over caliber size ( no void’s between petals ) but it’s issue was where it created that flat mushroom was a small velocity window & if that could potentially be created in the handgun velocities plus a few other characteristics you would have a very effective handgun or subsonic round

The key is those flat meplats & once you get a to rounded meplat all bets are off & terminal performance drops off

Just ticking

So would this system beat a shedding mono
I do think it has potential @ these velocities but you’d need to test that theory
But on what I’ve seen shedding monos are hard to get to work well @ that 1700/1800 below so I’m in the camp of the part I put up above as you handgun hunters this would be your best option basically a good expanding solid

Give you guys something to pester Steve on 😜😜

No proof read got to run
Cheers
Click to expand...
Good Lordamighty I’m going to ponder on this a bit before I do or type anything!
😂😂😂
 
cbjr said:
To update this thread, I edited a couple of my post to show that my Enforcer loads were not yet compressed. When time allows, I'll finish out the ladder and then post all relevant information for the load data sheet. In shorter barrels Enforcer is where it at. Rifle length may benefit from the slightly slower H110 and Lil'gun, but they fill up fast. As always, Use proper load techniques and work up and stay safe!
Click to expand...
As a solid H110/W296 pistolero, I need to test Enforcer. Period.
 
Farleg said:
Gday HG400
That’s a interesting comment & may have some merit as I’m going back to my subsonic days but sorry it’s rifles but may have relevance & comparing a 308&45-70

So I tried cast pills along with factory offerings in 308 & then 45-70 I tinkered with massive hp to straight meplat in various sizes

First the 45-70 it’s got the meplat size & I just couldn’t get the hp ones to open reliably so I set up that combo with wad cutters as it was the most reliable killer ( quickest) yet unless you hit cns you could guarantee it was a run & nearly always 50 plus yards if the shot was good

Now the 308 it just didn’t kill as efficiently as the 45-70 regardless of the style of pill I used ( all @ same impacts as the subsonic dictated that )

WELL until I melted down some wheel weights & these ever so soft pills ( I think 200 gr & will get a photo if I still have any left 🤞)
a game changer occurred in that 308 & my 45-70 was sold eventually ( I should have done the 45-70 pills in wheel weights but my circumstances changed & ended up selling all that stuff as I got sick of tracking some critters for hours if I found them ) it was that much difference but on what I needed to think of why & how ( still struggle with handgun velocities majorly)

The 308 would routinely expand to 60 cal but you had to stay off those shoulder joints or it was a mess & needed the bloodhound senses to kick in but in the crease it was effective

So then I thought man do that in higher velocities & 1700-1800 is where that system got to be very unreliable

So I think the mushroom idea has a bit of merit but I just don’t like those velocities down that low then again handgun velocities get me on what they have shown to be able to produce so hmm still a lot to learn

Now why can’t this system work with rifle velocities if we could control that mushroom
Mmmm I do believe it can & does as was proven in a mono out of Africa ( ballistic) as it had around 10/12 petals that would create a flat meplat mushroom of substantial over caliber size ( no void’s between petals ) but it’s issue was where it created that flat mushroom was a small velocity window & if that could potentially be created in the handgun velocities plus a few other characteristics you would have a very effective handgun or subsonic round

The key is those flat meplats & once you get a to rounded meplat all bets are off & terminal performance drops off

Just ticking

So would this system beat a shedding mono
I do think it has potential @ these velocities but you’d need to test that theory
But on what I’ve seen shedding monos are hard to get to work well @ that 1700/1800 below so I’m in the camp of the part I put up above as you handgun hunters this would be your best option basically a good expanding solid

Give you guys something to pester Steve on 😜😜

No proof read got to run
Cheers
Click to expand...
This is the most coherent post of Fordy I’ve ever read!!!😳🤘
 
Gday
LTT 🤣🤣🤣
Don’t get use to the coherent part as I can’t keep that part up for long 😜

Also to add to my coherent post is the tensile strength & structure of that alloy on being able to give us that flat meplat
This is the one that is going to be the hardest but the hammer boys found the one that has proven itself over a wide range of applications already
So why not the handgun lines hmmm
The advantages of handgun velocities are they are a close velocity window to begin with so that’s a great place to start but man those velocities suck imo but yet kill better than they should in handgun’s

Also it jigged my old thoughts, take that 308&45-70 & 200 gr weight advantage to 45-70 yet that 308 would kill way better @ the same velocity, yep it’s why I’ve always thought energy ftlbs figures are crap
& not trying to derail the thread as we’ve been over the way energy should be considered & applied previously

Cheers
 
Farleg said:
Gday
LTT 🤣🤣🤣
Don’t get use to the coherent part as I can’t keep that part up for long 😜

Also to add to my coherent post is the tensile strength & structure of that alloy on being able to give us that flat meplat
This is the one that is going to be the hardest but the hammer boys found the one that has proven itself over a wide range of applications already
So why not the handgun lines hmmm
The advantages of handgun velocities are they are a close velocity window to begin with so that’s a great place to start but man those velocities suck imo but yet kill better than they should in handgun’s

Also it jigged my old thoughts, take that 308&45-70 & 200 gr weight advantage to 45-70 yet that 308 would kill way better @ the same velocity, yep it’s why I’ve always thought energy ftlbs figures are crap
& not trying to derail the thread as we’ve been over the way energy should be considered & applied previously

Cheers
Click to expand...
Energy is a measurable… BUT, the variety of a critter’s insides (not to mention hide!) are so complex as to make “measurables” meaningless. That’s what I love about HAMMERS! B&S are trying to make bullets that work in ALL varieties of insides!
 
LightTheTower said:
Energy is a measurable… BUT, the variety of a critter’s insides (not to mention hide!) are so complex as to make “measurables” meaningless. That’s what I love about HAMMERS! B&S are trying to make bullets that work in ALL varieties of insides!
Click to expand...
Gday LTT
Don’t you have to get ready for a upcoming hunt as your getting me sidetracked 🤣

👍😎
Cheers
 
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