HHT Terminal Performance

[T_the_Tinkerer]

Gday tinker
Yes the alloy is something special I know a lot have tried to find out so be interesting to hear your findings in private of course & the biggest advantage it has is it’s not needing to be broached as that’s also why I believe we are seeing this hht giving us the incredible velocity window it does

You look @ every other brand that broaching occurs you don’t get that pop that happens in the transition zone ( @ the end of it ) which give us the bubble that just is hard to believe it can keep going on in the critter & dosent taper quicker
Yet it’s not only that copper alloy as I’ve just completed testing with 3 different tips sxs & wow I didn’t see that coming & more on that shortly but I’ve got to go & AI some cows back in a hour & will discuss this more if one likes among other things but not that book you guys just don’t give up

Oh & gel I’m warming to it a bit more as I had one bloke put some good pictures up on lrh some time back & description that I liked but you ain’t got me over that line fully yet lol
Cheers

It's so funny you say what you did about broaching and the bubble. I recently did a load workup and gel test with the 65gr Cutting Edge Maximus (which is internally broached), and what you describe is exactly what I saw when testing them both at 200yrd impacts. Synthetic gel, when expanded/collapsed really fast burns inside the block. That's how you know how much energy was transferred into work and how fast. The Maximus didn't send the petals as far nor did it otherwise as deeply despite a very similar MV.

 

[Farleg]

Gday tinker
That’s good news keep into my ear on this gel lol

The maximus was one pill that really disappointed me as man I thought it had potential well on paper it did
I’ll see if I can find a few old pictures as I shot deer with the 185 in my h&h I think around 3400 MV & most 3k plus impact which gave great looking wounds a fur on them floating in the air on impact but the shapecharge was all wrong & I stopped using them after repeated long runs but still have plenty then compare that to the 137 , 375 SH & I got a high proportion of bangflop or limited runs & from a wider range of impacts
Yep so much in a pill design that I wish more companies would tinker more before putting them out in the market but that’s the world we regrettable live in then we have to sort through the good & bad & stares me in the face of how easy they can actually fix a lot of their issues but some listen some don’t & that’s just life for which I don’t get to wound up about now

The maximus is basically a varmit bullet imo
The mth is a better line & the lasers need speed to work well as most monos do but man alive don’t take any notice of the 1200 min impact on lasers as that is a absolute joke not even the best frangible work well down there well the frangible I’ve used & to get a pill to work @ even 1400/1500 is one that I’ve only seen a couple & then it’s still not one I like

Oh memories yep glad I don’t shoot longrange anymore or maximus lol
Cheers

 

[aratliff]

Thanks for the great write up, @kneedeep. Definitely got my learn on.
One lesson that was reinforced (already learned it, just need to practice it) is to stop taking heart shots.
I’m revisit the 154HHT next year, and I’ll likely get the 125HHT as well if the PRC is ready to hunt next year.

 

[jrebel]

Made it home safe, so lets get this write up started.

Rifle:
Savage High Country
Caliber: 300wsm
Twist: 1:10
Barrel length: 24"
Bullet: 168gr HHT
MV: 3100 fps
Impact Velocity 2911 fps

Target:
Whitetail deer 3 1/2 years old
Range: 100 yards
Position: ever so slightly quartering away....(the impact and exit make it look like it was hard quartering, which it wasn't)
Entrance / Exit: Entered on the deer left behind the shoulder...Exiting on the offside shoulder pretty far forward.

The entrance...Skin hole is approx. the size of my pointer finger 1/2". Once inside the skin, the wound is unbelievable.....like you could fit a coke / beer can through it without having to spread the wound. Rib bones were broke out and hanging. parts of the lungs were in between the ribs and the skin. The skin along the rib cage had been separated from the meat / ribs all the way back to the hind quarter. The amount of blood shot...ribs / arm pit / any tissue void in an 8" diameter was crazy.

Chest Cavity lots of blood an top of heart was shredded / gone. Appears to have sustained damage from the pedals breaking off as you can see in the picture. Lungs have a large hole going right through the middle. The lungs that remained in the cavity appear to be in relatively decent shape (Minus the huge hole in them), but are not jellied by any stretch of the imagination. Exit wound to ribs is large, approx. 2" long 1-1 1/2" high.

The Exit....Bullet continued through the right front shoulder of deer. As I stuck my finger through it...it appears it missed the bone. The wound channel is hamburger and the exit wound on offside shoulder (skin) is approx. the same size as the entrance..1/2".

I am mildly perplexed on why the bullet path was so drastically changed. When I shot the deer, I felt he was standing almost broadside....maybe a slight quartering away. I figured my shot with hit lungs and miss both shoulders. It appears the bullet dumped most of it's energy in the first 3-4 inches of the deer and actually started opening just under the skin. The onside ribcage wound looks like most exit wounds with standard cup and core bullets. I have to imagine the balloon / cavitation was impressive as it separated the hide from the ribs on the onside.

Deer ran approx. 30 yards and tipped over. He was a dead deer running as he ran into a tree at mach5 about half way to his final resting destination. Blood trail was easy to find / follow. Initial impact area had blood spray approx. 3' out the offside / exit.


I will be posting pics from my phone.....it should be within the next couple minutes.

 

[gltaylor]

Ahhhh........ yep. That's a bit much.
Looks almost like my RUM with a 124 on a small deer

 

[jrebel]

Ahhhh........ yep. That's a bit much.
Looks almost like my RUM with a 124 on a small deer

What's crazy is....I used this same set up to kill my 200 lb bear this year and it looked nothing like this. The bear was shot at 70 yards broadside. It also covered 30 yards and tipped over. Wound was very impressive and performance was amazing. This set up has killed two bear and a deer this year. We will see how it performs next year. Maybe I take the 7-08 with 101 hammer next year for close range deer.

 

[T_the_Tinkerer]

@jrebel
I'm glad to see that the last two photos weren't of bud light. Whoops, wrong forum.

 

[cubdriver84d]

Shot a big mule deer the other night right at shooting light. Tikka suppressed 20” 8 twist 6.5 prc with the 125hht launched at 3150 with impact velocity at 125 yards of about 2960. Photos are of the buck, entrance, entrance, exit, exit. He only made it about 20 yards. Bullet crushed the lungs and grazed the heart.

 

[MeatBuck]

@jrebel
I'm glad to see that the last two photos weren't of bud light. Whoops, wrong forum.

What’s the difference?
Still a Transheuser Butch product.

 

[jrebel]

What’s the difference?
Still a Transheuser Butch product.

You guys are killing me…..it’s a cheap water substitute. Get over it. Why drag politics into a thread about hunting??? Another very popular site has been ruined because of the politics board…..hope that doesn’t happen here.

Beer can pics deleted to appease folks political views.

 

[BFD]

You guys are killing me…..it’s a cheap water substitute. Get over it. Why drag politics into a thread about hunting??? Another very popular site has been ruined because of the politics board…..hope that doesn’t happen here.

What's political about trans(mission) fluid?

 

[MeatBuck]

You guys are killing me…..it’s a cheap water substitute. Get over it. Why drag politics into a thread about hunting??? Another very popular site has been ruined because of the politics board…..hope that doesn’t happen here.

Being that this is a public forum and politics is public…. you’re gonna run into stuff like this, just the way it is. Be glad as an American you have the right to voice your own opinion. And the ability to choose what beer you stock your fridge with.

A better question is why support a business that’s trying to use your dollars to (push an extremely disordered left wing political agenda) trans America?

I don’t expect an answer and in an effort to keep this from becoming a back and forth argument I have said all I’m going to say about this here.

This place (and America) won’t be ruined so long as folks keep a thick skin.

Back to dead animals now.

 

[Farleg]

Gday jrebel
No wise cracks about the transmission fluid here I think you need to be commended for putting that up as a reference point on wounds
Although I never tasted that drop well I think but I reserve the right to give a better thought on it when that day comes so watch out if it’s cats pi$$

Great photos man absolutely top stuff

On angles I’m not doubting your ability to see what you saw on the break of the trigger
What I’ve come to the understanding of is that our mind can play tricks on what occurred actually
The best example was when the hammer boys were over & Eric shot his trophy bull a total of 7 of us @ around 100 yards swore the bull was facing right & when we autopsied the critter I kept getting asked well what’s gone on & I could not answer & 200% dumbfounded as we had skun the right side completely out yet only on the watching the video reality was shown & the understanding the bull was facing left
It still puzzles me how we ALL got this wrong but wounds seldom are wrong

Now I can quote multiple times I have seen this but not to that extent as that was just plain ridiculous a 2000 lbs critter &@100 yard & no one saw it properly

Now let’s get real anal What I’ve learnt is to watch is the way the blood spray & hopefully the bullet impact is after the exit then look back to your shooting position ( it’s why I used to also carry flagging/marking tape paint can would be good also

Then you can get that pills path very easily & the videos I send to guy’s show this well & I’ll go through a couple to show what I mean if anyones interested

That out the way
Don’t be worried on the shape of the wound as we are dealing with a pill that is not broached so uniformity is pretty well impossible on a perfect vrs partial pattern & by far the biggest pattern this style ( hht ) has it sheds its petals to one side more now also on different resistances we get different results & rate of spin also seems to come into it which the hht is more consistent @ giving better results yet different results to those bears yep totally get that & here’s resistances & angle’s coming into play a bit

Yep this terminal stuff can & does get nuts if one wants also watch the direction of those bones from the impact yet that’s out the way on this one due to run but blood spray is important & go back to that drone video & I need to do a couple more with the hht

Now I just had Eric on the phone a couple days ago ( I think ) asking about blood trails ( @aratliff ) & we need to revisit that sometime as I also may have stumbled onto what’s also going on this I’m interested in & will look into the best I can

Lastly why does the bear not exhibit the same level of trauma
First is makeup & look how ea animals ribs will expand now once again I know nothing on bears but they are like us & can put arms out to the side of body where deer can’t so the difference in those bubbles inside ea critter behave differently & size also as you watch George’s deer pop more easily than kneedeeps
That’s way above & really just observations over the years & even fmj will give variation

But man wow that is a a fair difference from bear to deer so I’m @ a little loss on that one & looking forward to testing this pill & one I’ll watch now so thanks for bringing that to my attention

I apologise I haven’t gotten to them but sometimes our body just says no you need a break

Jrebel keep going on this analysis of wounds a straight rod is also good to put through the wound on the ground even before opening up as you will work out where it’s actual leg position was @ moment of impact

I will come back when I can got to run
Great stuff once again & thankyou I’ll also look into those pictures in more detail to see if I can see where my interpretation so far needs adjusting as I only briefly looked not in detail on ea one
Thanks & cheers

 

[JTH]

Shot a big mule deer the other night right at shooting light. Tikka suppressed 20” 8 twist 6.5 prc with the 125hht launched at 3150 with impact velocity at 125 yards of about 2960. Photos are of the buck, entrance, entrance, exit, exit. He only made it about 20 yards. Bullet crushed the lungs and grazed the heart.

Great buck, congrats! Pretty impressive terminal performance, I need to get some of these HHT’s dialed in.

 

[aratliff]

@Farleg, I hope one day I am able to buy you a beer.
Best regards,
Alan

 

[jrebel]

@Farleg

Wanted to break down the photos as they can be overwhelming and confusing as they sit. 100% confident in the fact the deer was facing left slightly quartering away (very slight) and the entrance wound is behind the deer's left shoulder. I agree that in the heat of the shot, perception can be distorted from reality and that is likely the cause of the exit being further forward than I would have thought. I only write the above, as it appears entrance and exit may be in question based on size / terminal ballistics pictured. The deer was not stressed, standing 100% still and eating off of a deer block. Clearly, the right leg / shoulder was back and the deer was likely quartering a little more than I had thought. As I typed this, It came to me to go re-evaluate the wound channel...the deer is hanging in my cooler. The exit wound is 3-4 ribs forward of entrance which in reality is not that much, maybe 4-5 inches.

First three pics are of entrance.....you can see the hair missing behind the shoulder on pic 2 and 3.

Last two pics are of exit.

 

[jrebel]

Next photos:

1. Chest cavity opened up showing Exit wound in ribs
2. Heart and lungs as they lay in the chest cavity
3. Heart and lungs out of the chest cavity. Top of heart taken off with striations on lungs that appear to be caused by bullets pedals.

 

[jrebel]

Next photos

1 & 2 Entrance side while skinning, large blood clot.
3. Exit side large blood clot.
4 & 5 lung tissue / blood clot that was in between the ribs and meat layer on outside of ribs. Zoomed in and then me holding the tissue.

 

[jrebel]

Next pictures

1. Impact side ribs after layer of meat cut back.
2. Impact side ribs inside of ribcage
3. Offside / Exit wound after layer of meat cut back
4. Zoomed in pic of #3
5. Offside / Exit wound inside ribcage

 

[gltaylor]

Wonderful, excellent job.