Recommendations for 308 Win.

[LightTheTower]

Hi, I've been comparing the load data for the 137HH on quikload (with latest update) vs the hammer data and there is a large discrepancy, CFE-223 and TAC. Not sure what direction to go. Quikload is much lower on FPS and pressure. Hammer: Hodg CFE-223 47gr 98% 2900 fps and the Quilkoad data is: 2706 fps and only 43807 PSI. Help ,what am I missing? thanks y'all

I can’t speak to QL or CFE, but I can tell you that in OUR SPECIFIC RIFLE, we had a compressed load of 50gn TAC that showed slight pressure signs with both the 137 HH and 151 AH. Every rifle is different so use caution.

 

[MeatBuck]

Hi, I've been comparing the load data for the 137HH on quikload (with latest update) vs the hammer data and there is a large discrepancy, CFE-223 and TAC. Not sure what direction to go. Quikload is much lower on FPS and pressure. Hammer: Hodg CFE-223 47gr 98% 2900 fps and the Quilkoad data is: 2706 fps and only 43807 PSI. Help ,what am I missing? thanks y'all

Is quikload compiled of actual user data/information or one of those algorithm jobs?

 

[BFD]

From what I've seen reported by users of TAC & CFE223 in the 308 I think one would be safe to try both and run with what shot best. They're the two powders giving Hammers what they need. SPEED.

 

[easttennjed]

I can’t speak to QL or CFE, but I can tell you that in OUR SPECIFIC RIFLE, we had a compressed load of 50gn TAC that showed slight pressure signs with both the 137 HH and 151 AH. Every rifle is different so use caution.

Thank you! It's good to be back with y'all

 

[easttennjed]

From what I've seen reported by users of TAC & CFE223 in the 308 I think one would be safe to try both and run with what shot best. They're the two powders giving Hammers what they need. SPEED.

Thank you, still haven't had to try the bearing I bought from you

 

[easttennjed]

Is quikload compiled of actual user data/information or one of those algorithm jobs?

Not sure where they get their data from unfortunately, but I think it's algorithm. They have extensive powder burn rate, etc. data that is also user customizeable.

 

[Snailz]

Good morning Thaymond

CFE223 was the fastest powder I tried with the 154HHT in my 26” factory barrel at 3015fps. Also had good accuracy. Varget and others were slow in my barrel.

Good luck
Kneedeep

I’d give Leverevolution a try if you have any. George from Badlands Precision claims his 20” gets 2950 fps with their 150gr bullet on a 49gr charge. Hammers have less engraving pressure than badlands so there’s probably more speed to be had. I just got some and will test his claims with their bullet and then see how fast it will push the 137 HH. Hoping to break 3200. My gun has not liked any CFE load I’ve put in it. Varget shoots well and TAC is good for the light monos.

 

[Snailz]

Gday thaymond
First Welcome from down under

Sorry for missing this one & thanks for the nudge kneedeep I’ll do my my best to not confuse & my 2 cents

Thaymond
im in the paddock @ present so got no numbers on me but used the 124 , 137 &151 a fair bit & the 137 is definitely a favourite of mine as a little history with it from the tweaking we showed what can be achieved

Now this pains me to say due to my history of the 137 but from the outside looking in but as we evolve we get better pills & in your case I believe this to be so

now I need to test this pill ( 154hht ) to get a better idea but like what I see from the other members so I do believe the 154 hht is the pill that will be superior to the other 3 as from a weakness position it has less

The velocity difference will be basically non existent especially as you get out a bit but I ran numbers on kneedeeps combo sometime ago & in a 308 you will surpass the impact velocity pretty quickly but here’s the next stage it’s those velocity brackets on those old pills & id be sure @around th 400 mark that either the 137or 151 ( 124 Im leaving out as your not keen on that ) would be around or under 2100 which puts us in the lowest possible bracket for hammers in those designs now move over to the hht & if my memory is correct starting @2950 MV you will be around that 2100 @400 also & no comparison on killing @ thesevelocities as the brackets just don’t line up

So from the position of the most consistent pill hands down that’s the hht regardless of it’s actual bubble
Terminal wise I love the 137 but I don’t like that last velocity bracket regardless of any pill any brand
& going off the pictures I’ve seen on the 154hht & the few wallaby I’ve shot I’d say that’s your pill but man alive if the stars align I am rooting for you 308 guys & a little lighter pill but a bit has to be learned yet imo

So my vote is the 154hht
My old favourite is better reserved to the chamberings that can get it up in the other brackets for that 400 mark

Side note to all
had a great discussion with kneedeep today for which I wont say to much but the direction to move in for me personally is to focus my efforts on getting a few more prototype pills over & forget what I’m doing @ present as I’ll still have to confirm in my sick mind anyway when those pills eventually come out
So I’m going to have a talk to the hammer boys tomorrow & see what I can sort & if they are ok with that & then it frees me up & I just have to accept I don’t know on the path I was going down as it was frustrating me anyway as my mind didn’t get it & my body can’t handle to much more so let’s just focus on what I can do easy & get some data that will hopefully help more people & myself included

Sorry for side note
Hope the information helps
cheers

Now that there’s a new kid on the block in the 138 HHT, how do you feel between the 138 and 154 for elk from 400 and in out of a 308?

 

[Farleg]

Now that there’s a new kid on the block in the 138 HHT, how do you feel between the 138 and 154 for elk from 400 and in out of a 308?

Gday snailz
Just got back home & the 154 preformed very well & is a bit of a surprise on it @ hyper velocities ( good not bad ) took it down to 2500 impact & still extremely good killing which vrs the 168 I was thinking the 168 was going to be a better pill ( please understand we had nothing go very far with either & they were 9 yard 19feet & approximately 20 yard that 20 yard one consisted in 2 circles & 6 of staggers under 5 yards
bangflops I don’t know how many total & around 20 would be conservative & roughly just over 1/2 of those were cns so I personally don’t worry about those for my data

So that above is my way of trying to sit on the fence lol until I test those 138 hht as the hht is throwing little curve balls that I’ve not really seen before
But here’s what I think of it’s potential for the 308 ,06 guys
This weight just seems to be a real good weight & the best thing I’ve seen with the hht line ( once the prototypes were tested prior to release ) is that what is getting turned out now are fairly darn impressive & the 138 I’m pretty confident it would do ok on elk ( I’ve got a mate that is going to use them on samba ( like your elk ) so once he gets them into them & if my body can standup to the demands of where he goes I’ll be on those hunts & report back )

So I’m going into bat for the 138 as that pill ticks some boxes in my head /thoughts but I’ve definitely been wrong before so hope you understand why I’m reserved


Cheers

 

[Beeman]

Gday snailz
Just got back home & the 154 preformed very well & is a bit of a surprise on it @ hyper velocities ( good not bad ) took it down to 2500 impact & still extremely good killing which vrs the 168 I was thinking the 168 was going to be a better pill ( please understand we had nothing go very far with either & they were 9 yard 19feet & approximately 20 yard that 20 yard one consisted in 2 circles & 6 of staggers under 5 yards
bangflops I don’t know how many total & around 20 would be conservative & roughly just over 1/2 of those were cns so I personally don’t worry about those for my data

So that above is my way of trying to sit on the fence lol until I test those 138 hht as the hht is throwing little curve balls that I’ve not really seen before
But here’s what I think of it’s potential for the 308 ,06 guys
This weight just seems to be a real good weight & the best thing I’ve seen with the hht line ( once the prototypes were tested prior to release ) is that what is getting turned out now are fairly darn impressive & the 138 I’m pretty confident it would do ok on elk ( I’ve got a mate that is going to use them on samba ( like your elk ) so once he gets them into them & if my body can standup to the demands of where he goes I’ll be on those hunts & report back )

So I’m going into bat for the 138 as that pill ticks some boxes in my head /thoughts but I’ve definitely been wrong before so hope you understand why I’m reserved


Cheers

You had me worried that the 168 HHT wasn’t very good. I just switched my 300 Win over to those from 215 Berger’s. But no game taken this year.

 

[les]

I’d give Leverevolution a try if you have any. George from Badlands Precision claims his 20” gets 2950 fps with their 150gr bullet on a 49gr charge. Hammers have less engraving pressure than badlands so there’s probably more speed to be had. I just got some and will test his claims with their bullet and then see how fast it will push the 137 HH. Hoping to break 3200. My gun has not liked any CFE load I’ve put in it. Varget shoots well and TAC is good for the light monos.

Too Slow of a Powder for the 308 and Hammers. The burn rate is close to the 4350 powders.

 

[Snailz]

Gday snailz
Just got back home & the 154 preformed very well & is a bit of a surprise on it @ hyper velocities ( good not bad ) took it down to 2500 impact & still extremely good killing which vrs the 168 I was thinking the 168 was going to be a better pill ( please understand we had nothing go very far with either & they were 9 yard 19feet & approximately 20 yard that 20 yard one consisted in 2 circles & 6 of staggers under 5 yards
bangflops I don’t know how many total & around 20 would be conservative & roughly just over 1/2 of those were cns so I personally don’t worry about those for my data

So that above is my way of trying to sit on the fence lol until I test those 138 hht as the hht is throwing little curve balls that I’ve not really seen before
But here’s what I think of it’s potential for the 308 ,06 guys
This weight just seems to be a real good weight & the best thing I’ve seen with the hht line ( once the prototypes were tested prior to release ) is that what is getting turned out now are fairly darn impressive & the 138 I’m pretty confident it would do ok on elk ( I’ve got a mate that is going to use them on samba ( like your elk ) so once he gets them into them & if my body can standup to the demands of where he goes I’ll be on those hunts & report back )

So I’m going into bat for the 138 as that pill ticks some boxes in my head /thoughts but I’ve definitely been wrong before so hope you understand why I’m reserved


Cheers

Well I have plenty of time before next hunting season to hear your field reports. Plus I have a good load with the 137 HH already. It left a pretty paltry exit wound on the buck I took with it at about 2400 fps impact, but it was high shoulder, didn’t take a step, expired quickly, and had almost no bloodshot meat.

An earlier comment of yours sparked a question. How do you feel about 7mm bullets vs 30 cal? The comment I’m referring to suggested you see 30 as far more devastating than 6.5 and was wondering if the same applies to 7mm. I’ve been waiting for more 7mm PRC offerings to come out (really wanting a CVA cascade), but I’ve been toying with the idea of 300 PRC as well. I shoot magnum muzzleloader loads and heavy 12GA TSS turkey loads and the recoil doesn’t bother me, but I haven’t spent any time behind a heavy centerfire. I’m not interested in a break. I just figured a 7mm PRC is a good do it all cartridge, comes in a standard length action, has sleeker bullets that can still get heavy, and is likely to be the more popular of the two moving forward. But if in your substantial experience you see a big chasm in terminal performance between the 30s and the 7s, I could be swayed to join the big ol’ 30 club.

 

[Snailz]

Too Slow of a Powder for the 308 and Hammers. The burn rate is close to the 4350 powders.

Too Slow of a Powder for the 308 and Hammers. The burn rate is close to the 4350 powders.

I’ve seen loads for H380 and N150 (both slower) and Alliant PP 2000MR (1 slot up) that all seemed respectable. There’s only two powders between it and CFE223 and other cartridges within that burn window (I.e. 6mm ARC) show loads for both and typically have LVR as the faster powder. Not saying it’s gonna work well with Hammers, but I don’t think it should be dismissed outright.

 

[les]

I've tried it. It does work. However you are leaving 200-300fps on the table. I don't like compressed loads. For the 137HH, I like Benchmark, Varget, TAC and VV540. For the 154HHT I like Varget, VV540, 3031, and StaBALL 6.5. With all that said, I have moved to the idea of the most accurate load rather than the "Balls to the Wall." load. I'm really liking the StaBALL powders.

 

[Snailz]

I've tried it. It does work. However you are leaving 200-300fps on the table. I don't like compressed loads. For the 137HH, I like Benchmark, Varget, TAC and VV540. For the 154HHT I like Varget, VV540, 3031, and StaBALL 6.5. With all that said, I have moved to the idea of the most accurate load rather than the "Balls to the Wall." load. I'm really liking the StaBALL powders.

StaBALL 6.5 or Match? 6.5 is way slow for 308 Win. Several spots slower than all 4350 powders. Not saying it doesn’t work, but that would be quite the surprise.

 

[les]

Snailz, both work. StaBALL 6.5 is a ball powder and you can get a lot in a 308 case. Way more that the 4350's. I wouldn't use it for less than a 150 class bullet.

 

[Snailz]

Fun to learn new stuff. Would’ve never thought to use that powder.

 

[choprzrul]

Not sure how it would translate to 308, but I found StaBall MATCH to be a very close replacement for W748 in my 6.5 CM shooting the 85gr HH.

I used to use W748 under 165gr Hornady cheapo for blasting my M1A…so it might be worth a look?

 

[Snailz]

Not sure how it would translate to 308, but I found StaBall MATCH to be a very close replacement for W748 in my 6.5 CM shooting the 85gr HH.

I used to use W748 under 165gr Hornady cheapo for blasting my M1A…so it might be worth a look?

Yeah both powders are supposed to work well in the 308. StaBall Match speeds are just a tiny tick below Varget, which already shoots great for me. My only interest in LVR is for potential extra 100+ fps. CFE 223 is a no go for my rifle for whatever reason. I got LVR because it was the recommended powder for 308 for the badlands precision bullets that I’m giving a whirl. Those bullets are a harder copper and pressure out a little early, while hammers generally do the opposite so I’d guess they tend to behave differently and like different powders.

 

[Carsyn.22]

If you have the H-LVR it doesn’t hurt to try it. It was made for the 30-30 after all which typically uses powder’s slightly faster than 308. In 30-30 it does live up to the claim of high velocity for not a lot of pressure. Being a ball powder it’s dense, you can fit more in than say varget, it usually does it’s best and most consistent work with high case fill%, also being a ball powder it likes to be LIT UP, I.e. use a crimp, try mag primers etc. to hit it in the backside with some shot start pressure, with the 137 I suspect this will be extra important, the higher velocity claims seem to show up better with heavy ish bullets.
This is coming from experience mostly in the 30-30…