Recommendations for 308 Win.

Snailz said:
Well I have plenty of time before next hunting season to hear your field reports. Plus I have a good load with the 137 HH already. It left a pretty paltry exit wound on the buck I took with it at about 2400 fps impact, but it was high shoulder, didn’t take a step, expired quickly, and had almost no bloodshot meat.

An earlier comment of yours sparked a question. How do you feel about 7mm bullets vs 30 cal? The comment I’m referring to suggested you see 30 as far more devastating than 6.5 and was wondering if the same applies to 7mm. I’ve been waiting for more 7mm PRC offerings to come out (really wanting a CVA cascade), but I’ve been toying with the idea of 300 PRC as well. I shoot magnum muzzleloader loads and heavy 12GA TSS turkey loads and the recoil doesn’t bother me, but I haven’t spent any time behind a heavy centerfire. I’m not interested in a break. I just figured a 7mm PRC is a good do it all cartridge, comes in a standard length action, has sleeker bullets that can still get heavy, and is likely to be the more popular of the two moving forward. But if in your substantial experience you see a big chasm in terminal performance between the 30s and the 7s, I could be swayed to join the big ol’ 30 club.
Click to expand...

Gday snailz

I think the greatest gains we have today is velocity use once we switch our thoughts to what’s actually needed for one’s specific purpose/needs

on years gone by we needed to go to bigger softer pills ( same calibre ) as to much speed was detrimental on the whole

I see advantages of smaller calibres on a penertration position but if we have adequate penertration the larger meplats offer more consistency

Really 7mm to 30 cal doesn’t matter to much & you’ll gain more by going to the 7prc vrs a 308 if one matches the correct pill as no use going a 7prc with a impact velocity the same as the 308 as you’ll see very little difference it’s when you get impacts of 200-300 more plus you’ll see better impact to tip
Speed kills & now with todays pills we can finally use real good velocities to our benefit without worrying about under penetration ( triangle )
Now go from that 7mm or 30 cal to the 358 man you watch the difference especially @ same impacts ( pill choice still important not just frontal diameter)

So I’m for the biggest calibre one can shoot accurately & that’s not off a bench for me it’s in the field as it just gives us more insurance & the triangle is where it shows & some pills of smaller calibers outperform the bigger but keep apples with apples the bigger meplat is superior

The same can be said across all calibres so I try to not get bogged down in this vrs that as a pills certain characteristics will often outweigh frontal diameter unless you get big differences & that’s what kills not what is the actual number on the barrel

I hope that explains & not abrasive like
Cheers
 
Farleg said:
Gday snailz

I think the greatest gains we have today is velocity use once we switch our thoughts to what’s actually needed for one’s specific purpose/needs

on years gone by we needed to go to bigger softer pills ( same calibre ) as to much speed was detrimental on the whole

I see advantages of smaller calibres on a penertration position but if we have adequate penertration the larger meplats offer more consistency

Really 7mm to 30 cal doesn’t matter to much & you’ll gain more by going to the 7prc vrs a 308 if one matches the correct pill as no use going a 7prc with a impact velocity the same as the 308 as you’ll see very little difference it’s when you get impacts of 200-300 more plus you’ll see better impact to tip
Speed kills & now with todays pills we can finally use real good velocities to our benefit without worrying about under penetration ( triangle )
Now go from that 7mm or 30 cal to the 358 man you watch the difference especially @ same impacts ( pill choice still important not just frontal diameter)

So I’m for the biggest calibre one can shoot accurately & that’s not off a bench for me it’s in the field as it just gives us more insurance & the triangle is where it shows & some pills of smaller calibers outperform the bigger but keep apples with apples the bigger meplat is superior

The same can be said across all calibres so I try to not get bogged down in this vrs that as a pills certain characteristics will often outweigh frontal diameter unless you get big differences & that’s what kills not what is the actual number on the barrel

I hope that explains & not abrasive like
Cheers
Click to expand...
Yeah that does a good job breaking it down. That falls in line with my general thoughts. Going from numbers to meat performance doesn’t always line up and I didn’t want there to be some threshold at 30 cal where performance seems to jump up more than would be expected with similar bullets at the same impact velocity. Something you’d see from lots and lots of testing on animals, but that wouldn’t be evident from the numbers. I’ve been holding to 7 PRC being the better choice over 300 and I think I’ll keep waiting for more availability. 145 HHT seems to be a good choice for that cartridge. The 132 won’t hold onto that extra 100 fps for very long. However, I gifted a buddy some 120gr HH and he’s taking his sweet *** time getting around to loading them. I might nab some and see if I can’t get close to 3600 with them and see how those do.
 
Thanks for the extra info. I think throwing it under the 137 is a lark just to see what happens. I’m already quite happy with Varget for that bullet. I might be more serious about it if I get a heavier bullet.
 
Beeman said:
I like that you really pick apart the success and failures of certain bullets. No sense sugar coating it if something doesn’t work. But I’m glad to hear that the 168 HHT is a decent bullet.
Click to expand...
I like that too! I’ve come to the conclusion that all Hammers work. Some better than others, and sometimes better than other times. I’m sure this is true about other bullets, but I feel like Hammers “working” percentage is exponentially higher.😬
 
[
Beeman said:
I like that you really pick apart the success and failures of certain bullets. No sense sugar coating it if something doesn’t work. But I’m glad to hear that the 168 HHT is a decent bullet.
Click to expand...
QUOTE="LightTheTower, post: 23479, member: 26"]
I like that too! I’ve come to the conclusion that all Hammers work. Some better than others, and sometimes better than other times. I’m sure this is true about other bullets, but I feel like Hammers “working” percentage is exponentially higher.😬
[/QUOTE]
Gday beeman & LTT

👍😎

Cheers
 
Snailz said:
I’d give Leverevolution a try if you have any. George from Badlands Precision claims his 20” gets 2950 fps with their 150gr bullet on a 49gr charge. Hammers have less engraving pressure than badlands so there’s probably more speed to be had. I just got some and will test his claims with their bullet and then see how fast it will push the 137 HH. Hoping to break 3200. My gun has not liked any CFE load I’ve put in it. Varget shoots well and TAC is good for the light monos.
Click to expand...
I eagerly await the results of this experiment.
 
LightTheTower said:
We got the 151 AH up to 3200 in a 308 with TAC. Settled at 3050 and took it elk hunting, but didn’t see an elk. I have confidence it would’ve performed out to 500 yards.
Click to expand...
151 AH was a totally screwy bullet for me. Lots of pressure getting anywhere near your load data. It also strangely would see pressure if loaded beyond 2.83 COL with TAC, but be fine with the same charge below it. Shot any COL with Varget just fine. Shot almost 50 and never got anything below MOA. Several groups very close, but nothing consistent. Tried TAC, Varget, CFE223 (out of desperation). It’s easy to get the 137 over 3000 with my 22” barrel, so I’m definitely over dealing with the absolutes, or at least that one specifically.
 
easttennjed said:
Hi, I've been comparing the load data for the 137HH on quikload (with latest update) vs the hammer data and there is a large discrepancy, CFE-223 and TAC. Not sure what direction to go. Quikload is much lower on FPS and pressure. Hammer: Hodg CFE-223 47gr 98% 2900 fps and the Quilkoad data is: 2706 fps and only 43807 PSI. Help ,what am I missing? thanks y'all
Click to expand...
Not sure if this got answered. My gun hated CFE223 pretty much across the board. TAC works pretty well, but Varget is a clear step above for accuracy in my rifle. 47.4 gr put 5 at .56 MOA in a cheap savage axis II. MV 3010. Max load was 48.8, shot just over MOA, no chrony for that load but it’s likely around 3075-3100, if not a touch higher. TAC gave me 3075 with 47.6 and hit the pressure spike at 48.0 and got like 3180 (still shot well, but I don’t like any bolt stick even if I’m going to be shooting 40 degrees cooler come hunting season). My rifle has sped up a little (or my chrono is getting wonky after taking a ML sabot to the face) with more shooting and that Varget load is more recent than the TAC. TAC could very well be into the mid 3100s with that load in my gun now.
COL 2.8275. Really anywhere from 2.825-2.830 shoots tight, but opens up noticeably when I’ve loaded 2.8-2.823. Load data on the page has 2.74 listed for COL so might as well start there and try my COL if you don’t see the accuracy you want at the velocity you’re chasing. Benchmark would be another good choice for a more temp stable powder with TAC velocity. Both powders are good for the light bullets if you ever want to throw some 100-120gr screamers at some yotes.
 
@Snails,
Don't give up on the Absolutes. That barrel may not like them, but others might very well. Some of my smallest groups have been with Absolutes. Course, I've had some bugholes with Hunters too😃
 
gltaylor said:
@Snails,
Don't give up on the Absolutes. That barrel may not like them, but others might very well. Some of my smallest groups have been with Absolutes. Course, I've had some bugholes with Hunters too😃
Click to expand...
Yeah if I get a different gun in a different caliber with more load data I would reconsider it. Just thinking it’s going to be hard to not get an HHT. The extra BC over the absolute lets you go with a lighter caliber to get close with speed and have better terminal performance with similar impact speeds.
 
Snailz said:
151 AH was a totally screwy bullet for me. Lots of pressure getting anywhere near your load data. It also strangely would see pressure if loaded beyond 2.83 COL with TAC, but be fine with the same charge below it. Shot any COL with Varget just fine. Shot almost 50 and never got anything below MOA. Several groups very close, but nothing consistent. Tried TAC, Varget, CFE223 (out of desperation). It’s easy to get the 137 over 3000 with my 22” barrel, so I’m definitely over dealing with the absolutes, or at least that one specifically.
Click to expand...
We had opposite accuracy results. 137 HHs shot moa or so with Varget or TAC. 151 AHs shot half moa with both. This was through most of the ladders. Filled the case and compressed with Varget on both. No pressure. 50gn of TAC was first real pressure. 47 and 48 of TAC shot 1/2 moa with the 151 AHs at 3000 to 3100. Settled at 47.6 @ 3050 and tuned that load to basically 1/4 moa with EC Tuner brake.
 
gltaylor said:
@Snails,
Don't give up on the Absolutes. That barrel may not like them, but others might very well. Some of my smallest groups have been with Absolutes. Course, I've had some bugholes with Hunters too😃
Click to expand...
4 barrels and absolutes absolutely sucked. HH & HHT keep the dream alive. I call a spade a spade.
 
LightTheTower said:
We had opposite accuracy results. 137 HHs shot moa or so with Varget or TAC. 151 AHs shot half moa with both. This was through most of the ladders. Filled the case and compressed with Varget on both. No pressure. 50gn of TAC was first real pressure. 47 and 48 of TAC shot 1/2 moa with the 151 AHs at 3000 to 3100. Settled at 47.6 @ 3050 and tuned that load to basically 1/4 moa with EC Tun
Click to expand...
LightTheTower said:
We had opposite accuracy results. 137 HHs shot moa or so with Varget or TAC. 151 AHs shot half moa with both. This was through most of the ladders. Filled the case and compressed with Varget on both. No pressure. 50gn of TAC was first real pressure. 47 and 48 of TAC shot 1/2 moa with the 151 AHs at 3000 to 3100. Settled at 47.6 @ 3050 and tuned that load to basically 1/4 moa with EC Tuner b
Click to expand...

LightTheTower said:
We had opposite accuracy results. 137 HHs shot moa or so with Varget or TAC. 151 AHs shot half moa with both. This was through most of the ladders. Filled the case and compressed with Varget on both. No pressure. 50gn of TAC was first real pressure. 47 and 48 of TAC shot 1/2 moa with the 151 AHs at 3000 to 3100. Settled at 47.6 @ 3050 and tuned that load to basically 1/4 moa with EC Tuner brake.
Click to expand...
What was your COL and did you mess with seating depth? I think I remember running your lower depth (I remember seeing like 2.75) and getting like 1.5 MOA and then going the other direction.

I’m mostly just curious because it was such an oddball batch of results. Glad it’s working well for you and the 137 is for me. Also glad to see you were able to tune the load. I’ve been interested in the EC Tuner myself (not the brake version) and it’s nice to see someone have success with hammers.
 
Snailz said:
Yeah if I get a different gun in a different caliber with more load data I would reconsider it. Just thinking it’s going to be hard to not get an HHT. The extra BC over the absolute lets you go with a lighter caliber to get close with speed and have better terminal performance with similar impact speeds.
Click to expand...

Gday snailz
👍
Even if the absolute gave @200-300 higher impact it dosent equate to the hht terminal results for the vast majority of peoples impact velocities
It’s only when we achieve the real high impacts we see a smaller difference between the 2 , add in potential meplat damage or basically non existent nose over in the hht you have got a pill that covers pretty well all the bases


Now move to GL & his zoomie on his deer in his shooting environment & I think he’s going to be hard pressed to beat that combo as a few others also will but the majority the hht will become a more staple pill I believe

Cheers
 
BFD said:
4 barrels and absolutes absolutely sucked. HH & HHT keep the dream alive. I call a spade a spade.
Click to expand...
Yeah the 151 gave me some screwy results and was a real PITA. Total opposite of the 137 where I just sorta eyeballed a seating depth, threw in a safe charge, and shot a .4” 3 shot group. Ended up doing more load development and working up, but it was all more fine tuning and having workable loads whenever I felt like being done with tinkering rather than just trying to find anything that work.
 
Farleg said:
Gday snailz
👍
Even if the absolute gave @200-300 higher impact it dosent equate to the hht terminal results for the vast majority of peoples impact velocities
It’s only when we achieve the real high impacts we see a smaller difference between the 2 , add in potential meplat damage or basically non existent nose over in the hht you have got a pill that covers pretty well all the bases


Now move to GL & his zoomie on his deer in his shooting environment & I think he’s going to be hard pressed to beat that combo as a few others also will but the majority the hht will become a more staple pill I believe

Cheers
Click to expand...
Yeah that was what I getting at. You can drop a weight class on an HHT to make up the speed and still have higher bc and therefore be ahead in impact velocity. It won’t work across the lineup, but in 30 cal the 138 should come within spitting distance of the 151 and has a better BC. Should be faster impact from 100 or so onwards.
 
Snailz said:
Yeah the 151 gave me some screwy results and was a real PITA. Total opposite of the 137 where I just sorta eyeballed a seating depth, threw in a safe charge, and shot a .4” 3 shot group. Ended up doing more load development and working up, but it was all more fine tuning and having workable loads whenever I felt like being done with tinkering rather than just trying to find anything that work.
Click to expand...
Yup
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top