HHT vs HH/AH Terminal Performance

pgaines

pgaines

Member
I am new to using Hammer Bullets, so far I am thrilled with them....super easy to build a load too and crazy accurate. I have a good friend who has been using Hammers for the past 3+ years, and the biggest hesitation for myself have been the smallish hollow point. Once the HHT's came out it really intrigued me to try them.

I have only taken an antelope (300yds) and mule deer (550yds) with my 7PRC using 170 HHT. Bullet performed great, yet I am still curious for those of you who have taken game with BOTH the new HHT and HH or AH, preferably elk or moose. How do they compare? In my assumption based on the starting size of the hollow point, the HHT is expanding earlier and potentially disrupting the vitals a lot more. How are heavy bone strikes affecting the HHT's? Do they seem to open a little too much too soon with less than normal penetration or are they still "Hammering" thru?

I would really like to see a good ballistic gel test against the two bullets...now that would be something to see.

Another point I have comparing the terminal performance on game, traditional bullets vs Hammers. I have a good comparison on similar kills. Years ago, I killed an antelope buck using a 270 WSM, 140 Accubonds at roughly 280 yards. This years buck, like I said 7PRC 170 HHT. Both antelope were shot quartering too, exited a few inches in front of the opposite hind quarter. Cant really tell you which one killed deader but I can say after dressing both, the Accubond left a soupy mess inside the guts whereas the HHT was a lot cleaner gut bag. Can anyone smarter than me explain what's going on in this comparison? IMO the AB was more violent than the Hammer. I do like the thought of not having lead fragmented in my meat...although its a bonded bullet, there is still lead shedding. Last year my son killed a cow elk using a 6.5PRC and 150g ABLR. It was a 575yd one shot kill, I recovered the bullet and its final weight was right at 70 grains. For a bonded bullet, on the downhill side of effective killing distance, it sure didn't hold together like I expected.
 
lots of stuff going on and not enough time to respond tonight. I’m curious what others responses are and will offer my two cents when I have more time. I’ve used and still use…accubonds as well as HH and HHT’s, so I think I can offer a little insight to some of your questions.

Hopefully tomorrow night, but by Friday at the latest. Cheers.
 
I bet you see better results when matching bullet weight to animal size. That 170 is suited better for heavier elk or moose sized game. Something in the 70-110g range would probably show better performance on antelope. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Just me?
 
Koda said:
Somewhere in here are threads dedicated to the hht, hh, and ah terminal performance. Pic heavy...

My current elk load is an AH, i have no concerns using it.
Click to expand...
Problem is you cant search HHT...nothing comes up. I did try that. If you come across it feel free to share the link. Thanks in advance
 
pgaines said:
Problem is you cant search HHT...nothing comes up. I did try that. If you come across it feel free to share the link. Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

HHT Terminal Performance

There is a thread on Hammer Bullets Terminal Performance (Picture Heavy). A request was made to create another thread specific to the new HHT family of bullets. Here it is. Please post descriptions of terminal performance, animal involved, caliber/weight bullet, distance, angle, impact velocity...
hammerbullets.com

Was replying from my phone and find that limited to browsing the foru.. your right the term HHT produces no results.

Anyways, I think there are other threads for the HH and AH too..
 
 
pgaines said:
yet I am still curious for those of you who have taken game with BOTH the new HHT and HH or AH, preferably elk or moose. How do they compare?
Click to expand...
heres the general thread on Hammers in general.

Official Hammer Bullets Terminal Performance (picture heavy)

We've been asked to start a new Thread on this new Forum to duplicate the thread we had on the old forum. The original thread was started about 2018-2019 and is still located on the Long Range Hunting Forum. It is about 40-some pages long now. If you wish to see your old photos, you can go to...
hammerbullets.com
 
We’ve shot four Texas whitetail (3 with 151AH in a 308, 1 with 131HHH in a 280) with Hammers. Shot dozens with various cup and cores. 30 yards is farthest any deer went with Hammers. I considered 30 yards a very SHORT run with all the others.
 
pgaines said:
or AH, preferably elk
Click to expand...
a year ago after searching the web for some Absolute kills on elk I selected my first Absolute for my own elk load. Here are a couple bookmarks that I found still in my bookmarks.
www.longrangehunting.com

608 Yard Colorado Bull 6.5 CM 123 Absolute Hammer

Levi sent us a picture of his dad's successful Colorado Bull Elk Hunt. Shot at 608 yards with a 6.5 Creedmoor and the 123 Absolute Hammer Bullet. Shot placement was at the crease of the shoulder, the Bull stood for a few seconds, walked yards and tipped over. Congratulations on an incredible Elk.
www.longrangehunting.com www.longrangehunting.com
https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...nce-picture-heavy.218288/page-37#post-2664064
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/hammer-bullets-performance-on-game.244429/#post-2376789
 
pgaines said:
I am new to using Hammer Bullets, so far I am thrilled with them....super easy to build a load too and crazy accurate. I have a good friend who has been using Hammers for the past 3+ years, and the biggest hesitation for myself have been the smallish hollow point. Once the HHT's came out it really intrigued me to try them.

I have only taken an antelope (300yds) and mule deer (550yds) with my 7PRC using 170 HHT. Bullet performed great, yet I am still curious for those of you who have taken game with BOTH the new HHT and HH or AH, preferably elk or moose. How do they compare? In my assumption based on the starting size of the hollow point, the HHT is expanding earlier and potentially disrupting the vitals a lot more. How are heavy bone strikes affecting the HHT's? Do they seem to open a little too much too soon with less than normal penetration or are they still "Hammering" thru?

I would really like to see a good ballistic gel test against the two bullets...now that would be something to see.

Another point I have comparing the terminal performance on game, traditional bullets vs Hammers. I have a good comparison on similar kills. Years ago, I killed an antelope buck using a 270 WSM, 140 Accubonds at roughly 280 yards. This years buck, like I said 7PRC 170 HHT. Both antelope were shot quartering too, exited a few inches in front of the opposite hind quarter. Cant really tell you which one killed deader but I can say after dressing both, the Accubond left a soupy mess inside the guts whereas the HHT was a lot cleaner gut bag. Can anyone smarter than me explain what's going on in this comparison? IMO the AB was more violent than the Hammer. I do like the thought of not having lead fragmented in my meat...although its a bonded bullet, there is still lead shedding. Last year my son killed a cow elk using a 6.5PRC and 150g ABLR. It was a 575yd one shot kill, I recovered the bullet and its final weight was right at 70 grains. For a bonded bullet, on the downhill side of effective killing distance, it sure didn't hold together like I expected.
Click to expand...
Lots of good info posted above and I'm not sure I can offer much more other than my personal experiences. I have shot Accubonds (Many many years), HH and HHT's on deer, bear, elk and moose...and am confident in saying all of the above bullets are very capable of killing. There are clear differences and advantages with both Hammers and Standard cup and core bullets (for the purpose of this post, accubonds and partitions).

Basic differences that are hard to ignore regardless of what camp your in....
1. Most factory rifles have barrel twist rates that support cup and core bullets....if you like to push heavy / heavy for caliber bullets. If you want to push a heavy / heavy for caliber mono....you almost have to do a custom build with a faster twist. Some factory rifles manufacturers are starting to offer faster twists...but it is the exception not the rule.
2. Mono's (hammers for the purpose of this post) like speed and fast twist. This lends to lighter for caliber (in most cases) than what most of us are accustom to. It took me time to embrace this concept and to say I was skeptical, would be an understatement.

Now to personal experiences with the bullets you are inquiring about.
1. Accubonds....My family has killed many animals with accubonds. We still shoot them in a quite a few rifles. The kill with authority and in my experience cause no worse damage than hammers. With that said, there are always stories where the AB (sometimes referred to as accubombs) have cause massive terminal performance (AKA total destruction of a shoulder), but I believe that is due to bullet placement. I have one experience that illustrates this exact thing.....a mule deer with a 140 grain accubond out of a 6.5 creed, at 70 ish yards and it dang near blew off the offside leg. I hit ribs, and then major bone structure on the offside scapula / leg bones. Wasted almost all of the offside shoulder.

Now keep in mind that, I am referring to the AB and not the ABLR....which are two completely different animals in and of themselves. I tried the ABLR's and put them in the same class bullet as the Hornady ELD-X......which both these bullets have a very small niche market in my opinion. I will not shoot either of these bullets on game.....and I know some folks love them, just not me.

2. Hammers...HH's and HHT's....My family has killed many animals over the last 3-4 years with hammers. I have yet to have a poor experience, and all animals have expired quickly and ethically.

HH's are what I cut my teeth on and the learning curve was steep.....as I had to come to grips with lighter for caliber then I am accustom to. With the lighter for caliber....there was also a learning curve with which powders (burn rates) would work the best for said bullets, as it was often different than my years of knowledge as a cup and core bullet reloader.

My personal experiences with HH bullets and their wound channels.

The good:
Very little meat damage, always an entrance and exit (regardless of bone hit), pedals have always peeled and most always exit, inside is jelly, ethical kills are guaranteed. Animals never go far.
The bad (very picky...but worth saying):
Blood trails are minimal. Fortunately these animals don't go far and most die where you hit them. We have had two deer that left very little blood on the ground. I believe this is due to the entry and exit wounds being about twice the diameter of the shank / bullet and the inside being jellied. The expansion / energy dump happens inside the chest cavity and blood just pools inside. Don't get me wrong....they do bleed, just not like they do with cup and core and the HHT's. We did have one exception to this with a 150 lb bear my son shot with a 124 gr HH at 40 yards our of a creed going 2850 fps. That sucker blead like a stuck pig.

My son shot a black bear in northern Alberta (estimated 500 plus lbs) at a little over 300 yards with a 260 grain HH out a 338 lapua. Bear was hard quartering to us and my son put it on his neck / high shoulder with bullet exiting on the offside ribs. Bear hit the ground and never moved. Bullet path was through neck and spin of a huge fall bear. Bullet exited with no recovered shank or pedals. Even with the spine hit....we only lost about 2-3 lbs of meet. I'm still amazing at how little meat loss is seen with the HH line.

My experiences with HHT bullets and their wound channels.

Just stated shooting them this year out of a 300 wsm. 168gr HHT with a MV of 3100 fps. We have killed two bear and one whitetail buck.

The Good:
No shanks recovered, meaning an exit on all three animals. Quick ethical kills. Blood trails that a blind man could follow. Animals never go far.
The Bad (very picky.....and could also be viewed as a good thing):
It appears the bullet opens / sheds pedals upon entering the hide (opens faster then the HH line). Massive terminal performance to the onside rib cage (as seen on the deer). Lots of coagulated blood in between muscle groups on ribs / shoulders (onside and offside).

I will say that, even with the massive terminal performance......there was minimal meat loss. It did make for a bigger mess and more cleaning while skinning, but such is life. I did really like the fact that a blood tail was easy to follow.

Anecdotally, I believe the HHT does open earlier and deliver a much more violent terminal performance. The HH seams to hold together just a bit longer. Both kill with authority and I will absolutely keep shooting both lines. Both are ridiculously easy to load for...and are stupid accurate.

Happy hunting....
 
jrebel said:
Lots of good info posted above and I'm not sure I can offer much more other than my personal experiences. I have shot Accubonds (Many many years), HH and HHT's on deer, bear, elk and moose...and am confident in saying all of the above bullets are very capable of killing. There are clear differences and advantages with both Hammers and Standard cup and core bullets (for the purpose of this post, accubonds and partitions).
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing, thats great. It makes sense that the HHT's would open earlier based on their design, probably safe to compare AB vs ABLR like you would HH vs HHT?

I just ordered some 95gr HHT's for my 257 WBY....Im hoping to try them out on a whitetail doe before seasons end.
 
No....ABLR are nothing like HHT's. ABLR and ELD-X will dynamite on bone and not retain much if any weight. Matter of fact, they have been known to dynamite and not make it to the vitals. The HHT will open up and shed it's pedals while the shank will continue through the animal. HHT's...or any hammer for that matter is in a different class all together.

I just wanted to differentiate between the ABLR and the AB's. One of noslers biggest mistakes (in my humble opinion) was making the ABLR and then naming it after the AB which was hugely successful. A lot of shooters just look at the AB "AccuBond" and assume it is good, then they are disappointed in accuracy and performance, just to become educated and find out they were shooting ABLR's which are garbage. Again, just my opinion.

I will find a picture of a big spring bear I hit in the high shoulder with an ELD-X that lived to show up on camera a year later. Bullet exploded, removing meat and hair but not penetrating through the shoulder. ABLR's have been know to do the same.

Pictures added....bear was quartering to slightly entering high shoulder should have exited 3 to 6 inches lower slightly behind the offside shoulder. 500 yards, watched impact.....bear rolls like it was hit, gets up and walks off. Found a softball sized tuft of fur, skin and meat.....minimal blood trail for about 100 yards before nothing. Next spring....this is what we find on camera. I love high shoulders on bear and with a good bullet, it would have crushed it. ELD-X, ABLR's and Bergers are not designed to hit bone. 300 win mag with a 212 grain ELD-X.

BEAR was basically standing like the first pic but I had high ground.
 

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jrebel said:
No....ABLR are nothing like HHT's. ABLR and ELD-X will dynamite on bone and not retain much if any weight. Matter of fact, they have been known to dynamite and not make it to the vitals. The HHT will open up and shed it's pedals while the shank will continue through the animal. HHT's...or any hammer for that matter is in a different class all together.

I just wanted to differentiate between the ABLR and the AB's. One of noslers biggest mistakes (in my humble opinion) was making the ABLR and then naming it after the AB which was hugely successful. A lot of shooters just look at the AB "AccuBond" and assume it is good, then they are disappointed in accuracy and performance, just to become educated and find out they were shooting ABLR's which are garbage. Again, just my opinion.

I will find a picture of a big spring bear I hit in the high shoulder with an ELD-X that lived to show up on camera a year later. Bullet exploded, removing meat and hair but not penetrating through the shoulder. ABLR's have been know to do the same.

Pictures added....bear was quartering to slightly entering high shoulder should have exited 3 to 6 inches lower slightly behind the offside shoulder. 500 yards, watched impact.....bear rolls like it was hit, gets up and walks off. Found a softball sized tuft of fur, skin and meat.....minimal blood trail for about 100 yards before nothing. Next spring....this is what we find on camera. I love high shoulders on bear and with a good bullet, it would have crushed it. ELD-X, ABLR's and Bergers are not designed to hit bone. 300 win mag with a 212 grain ELD-X.

BEAR was basically standing like the first pic but I had high ground.
Click to expand...
Your experience with bears is similar to mine, contrary to most that find them easy to kill.

We've chased some with hounds to finish what should have been one and done.

None of mine, as they were all shot with a .375 H&H.

We stopped losing bears when guys started using bigger calibers, and heavier bullets. Went from tracking to bears dead in the bait pile.
 
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